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Hi folks, I wonder if anybody out there can lighten my darkness?
I am working on the tree for a John Riding, born c1819 Liverpool. The 1861 census shows a son? John Redorn born c1854 in Liverpool. I do not seem able to find any other reference for him, he would be about 7 years old at the time of the Census.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Iain

Could you post that census, please?

Added:
Different spelling?
1861 England Census
John Riding Age: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eleanor Riding
Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Kirkdale Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 61 Household schedule number: 198 Piece: 2720 Folio: 90 Page Number: 39
John Riding 42
Eleanor Riding 46
Elizabeth Morney 17 dau
Julia Morney 15 dau
xxx John Ridny 7 son
George Stevens 28
Elizabeth Stevens 4
Bedelia Sallow 18
James Walch 12
Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 2720; Folio: 90; Page: 39; GSU roll: 543018.

Did you look at the original, as it looks like Riding, if this is the one you mean?

Births Sep 1853
RIDING John Liverpool 8b 50

Not to sure as to the correct method of posting copies of the census but here goes.
1861 Census Household Record




Household Information



Address

Vauxhall Road



Parish

Kirkdale



District

West Derby, Everton



Administrative County

Lancashire



Householder 1



Name

John Riding



Age

42



Estimated Year of Birth

1819



Relationship to Head of Household

Head



Occupation

Licenced Victualler Contractor



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 2



Name

Eleanor Riding



Age

46



Estimated Year of Birth

1815



Relationship to Head of Household

Wife



Occupation




Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 3



Name

Elizabeth Mooney



Age

17



Estimated Year of Birth

1844



Relationship to Head of Household

Daughter



Occupation




Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 4



Name

Julia Mooney



Age

15



Estimated Year of Birth

1846



Relationship to Head of Household

Daughter



Occupation

Juvenile



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 5



Name

John Redorn



Age

7



Estimated Year of Birth

1854



Relationship to Head of Household

Son



Occupation

Juvenile



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 6



Name

George Stroem



Age

28



Estimated Year of Birth

1833



Relationship to Head of Household

Servant



Occupation

Servant Man



Birth Place




Birth County

Yorkshire



Householder 7



Name

Elizabeth Stroem



Age

4



Estimated Year of Birth

1857



Relationship to Head of Household

Daughter



Occupation

Juvenile



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 8



Name

Bede Ralley



Age

18



Estimated Year of Birth

1843



Relationship to Head of Household

Servant



Occupation

House Servant



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire



Householder 9



Name

James Walsh



Age

12



Estimated Year of Birth

1849



Relationship to Head of Household

Seaman



Occupation

House Servant



Birth Place

Liverpool



Birth County

Lancashire

Hi Patchem
The John Redorn must be a miss spelling when the census was compiled. had I been a little more awake I should have realised this. If nothing else it would have saved me a couple of hours wasted time last night. Neverthless thanks for your trouble over this I really do appreciate the help you folks give.
Iain

I was looking for a baptism for John but came across this.

It seems John did not marry Eleanor until 1855 - I wonder if John Jnr. was the child of his first wife >

Marriage: 10 Jan 1855 St Paul, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Riding - Full, Cart Owner, Widower, Naylor Street
Eleanor Mooney - Full, Widow, Vauxhall Road
Groom's Father: Hugh Riding, Labourer
Bride's Father: Dominick Farrell, Customs Officer
Witness: Thomas Shaw; Ann Shaw, (X)
Married by Banns by: J. H. Stafford Minister
Register: Marriages 1854 - 1858, Page 65, Entry 130
Source: LDS Film 1656375

Dea x

Iain

If you look at the image of the census, you will see that the error is one made by the transcriber...........not by the enumerator

Always check images..............most census records have been transcribed by people for whom English is not a first language

So this would probably be Eleanor with her first husband in 1851:

MOONEY, William Head Married M 39 1812 Bricklayer Liverpool, Lancashire
MOONEY, Ellen Wife Married F 39 1812 Liverpool, Lancashire
MOONEY, Thomas Son M 13 1838 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire
MOONEY, Elizabeth Daughter F 4 1847 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire
MOONEY, Julia Daughter F 3 1848 Scholar Liverpool, Lancashire
HEALY, Mary Ann Servant Unmarried F 21 1830 House Servant Ireland
MARSHALL, William Lodger Unmarried M 18 1833 Carter Liverpool, Lancashire
LEONARD, Patrick Lodger Unmarried M 18 1833 Common Labourer Ireland

Piece: 2178 Folio: 451 Page: 11
Registration District: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Municipal Borough: Liverpool

Address: 2, Pump Fields, Liverpool County: Lancashire

A possibility for the death of her first husband (John's father)
EDIT: Of course John Riding was his father but this is still possibly relevant for the death of Eleanor's first husband

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988

Name: Wm Mooney
Birth Year: abt 1815
Age: 39
Death Year: abt 1854
Burial Date: 8 Aug 1854
Parish: St Anthony's

Died in hospital

EDIT: There are also several other William Mooney's who died 1854-1856 in Liverpool.

MarieCeleste.
Is not John Riding(1854) the son of John Riding(1819) and his father's first wife?

Yes patchem, you're right - I'd read it that Ridny was a mistranscription of Mooney.

Will still leave the info as I've posted as it's relevant.

Hello to Patchem, Dea, Reggie, Marie Celeste
Thanks so much for your latest replies/messages. It really has been a great help.
Also, as I am still fairly new to all of this, but trying hard (very trying) it is rather encouraging to note that sometimes others make slight mistakes. Perhaps I'm not as slow as I think I am.
Once again many thanks.
Iain

Iain - are you by any chance using Internet Explorer as your browser? If so, there should be a little icon that looks like a piece of torn paper on the web address bar at the top of your screen. Click on that "bit of paper" icon and it should turn a darker blue, repeat that on every tab you have open. Then, when you copy and paste info from one tab to another you don't get all of the white space.

Just a little titbit:

Liverpool Mercury - Tuesday 19 October 1858

TO FARMERS AND OTHERS:
William Reid, having left my employ, he is not authorised to collect accounts or transact any business on my account.
John Riding, Contractor, 141 Vauxhall Road

(occupation and address matches the 1861)

John Riding was also mentioned in the 1857 marriage notice of the same William Reid to a Mary Ann Dwyer. Reid was described as the manager and book-keeper for Mr John riding, contractor.

More from the newspapers:

In January 1865 John Riding of Pumpfields, Vauxhall Road, a knacker and cartowner was the defendant in a case about the disposal of a possibly stolen horse. The license for the knackers yard was held by his wife Ellen.
..................................................................................................................

In January 1863 he was described as a manure dealer and team-owner when bankruptcy proceedings were instigated against him. Later reports on the insolvency also refer to him as a publican.
.................................................................................................................

In August 1862 his house was burgled and a gold watch and three shawls belonging to one of his step-daughters was stolen
.................................................................................................................

In December 1863 he was a witness in a case where someone had shot another man, the defendant had also turned the gun on Riding but it failed to fire.

Liverpool Mercury - 20 March 1869
Marriages

HALPEN - MOONEY. March 18, by licence, at St Anthony's Chapel by the Rev T Hogan, Mr James Halpen officer of the ship Bavaria to Elizabeth, oldest daughter of the late William Mooney and stepdaughter of the late John Riding of this town.

Hello Marie
Well, firstly I shall try the copy/paste method you have described.
The info about John Riding is fantastic, thank you so much. My wife is a Riding and these are some of her ancestors, which I am working on for her family tree.
I always had doubts about some of her ancestors, if left to me I would have had them transported to the colonies.
It is a great service you provide to folks like me who are learning slowly, how to build their family trees, and I really do appreciate your efforts.
Many thanks
Iain

This 'may' be his burial ??

Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988 about John Riding
Name: John Riding
Birth Year: abt 1818
Age: 48
Death Year: abt 1866
Burial Date: 30 Jun 1866
Parish: Ford Cemetery

Dea x

I wonder if this 1871 could be the son born in 1854?

HOWARD, Robert Head M 39 1832 Lancashire
HOWARD, Ann Wife F 43 1828 Lancashire
HOWARD, Peter Son M 17 1854 Lancashire
HOWARD, William Son M 15 1856 Lancashire
FORSHAW, Timothy Boarder M 21 1850 Lancashire
FORSHAW, Elizabeth Boarder F 22 1849 Lancashire
FORSHAW, Robert Boarder M 0 1871 Lancashire
RIDING, John Boarder M 17 1854 Lancashire < Ag Lab, born West Derby

Piece: 3849 Folio: 6 Page: 11
Registration District: West Derby
Civil Parish: West Derby

Address: Deysbrook Lane Barrow's Cottages, West Derby County: Lancashire

EDIT: No, I think this is the son of a William and Ellen, per the 1851 census. But will leave even if just to eliminate.