Find Ancestors

being in Australia i have to go to bed now ZZzzzzzz but i am very grateful for everyones help.
I will pick up the thread tomorrow and any other suggestions/ entries you may have found...thank you

Cindy, do you have a tree on Ancestry? It's just there is one (owner jaxprocter) with rather a lot of informaiton on your family. It gives a dob for George 22/8/1843, father William and mother Sarah Pope.

It also has a marriage for Thomas in 1912 to Ethel Franklin - is this correct?

yes Flip i have access to her tree, we both have struggled with Thomas and i think she gave up. The marriage of Thomas was to my grandmother Ethel Franklin, but all the trees i have searched have nothing relating to Thomas's birth record, mother or why he was placed......i know george married several times but am unclear as to which wife was Thomas's mother or indead half his siblings mother....
i look and look and it all becomes a blur as i need to find this to fill a gap both tree wise and peronally

London, England, Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1430-1930
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hackney
Borough: Hackney
Register Name: Schools and Children, 1891-1905
Record Type: Register of Children
Year Range: 1891-1905

This is the record (on Ancestry) for Robert and Thomas Knott

Robert is on image 243 of 667 and Thomas Knott is on image 280 of 667

In case you can't find it they say:

Hackney Union Brentwood

Robert Knott bo.1882 - aunt Mrs. Knott of 35, North Street, Hackney
Admitted 15/7/1893 Discharged 1/3/1898 - apprenticed


Thomas Knott b.1886 - c of E - aunt Mrs. Hogan of 35, North Street :-D
Admittted 20/6/1895 Discharged 10/10/1895 to workhouse to be boarded out

The admissions for these dates just give their names, no reasons as to why they have been taken there.

i will try and trace Mrs Ogan in the morning

On the 1891 census, George claims to be married. So maybe his wife was in hospital at the time, and died shortly after. Or maybe not. Just a possibility.

Name: James Knott
Age: 4
Birth Date: 3 Oct 1873
School: Pritchards Road School
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Admission Date: 1 Apr 1878
Parent: George
Notes: Pritchards Road School (0291) opened in 1875
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV05/PRI/AD/006

(address, 4, Wharf Road)

Name: Robert Knott
Age: 6
Birth Date: 3 Jun 1883
School: Atley Road School
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Admission Date: 11 Nov 1889
Parent: George
Notes: Atley Road School (0173) opened in 1873. Remodelled in 1910. Renamed George Lansbury Primary School in 1951
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV05/ATL/AD/017

Name: Thomas Knott
Age: 4
Birth Date: 3 Dec 1884
School: Atley Road School
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Admission Date: 11 Nov 1889
Parent: George
Notes: Atley Road School (0173) opened in 1873. Remodelled in 1910. Renamed George Lansbury Primary School in 1951
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV05/ATL/AD/017

(for both, address as, 6, Ruston Street, Last School Attended, Lea Bridge Road (short time)

Name: Jane Knott
Age: 8
Birth Date: 26 Sep 1881
School: Atley Road School
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Admission Date: 25 Nov 1889
Parent: George
Notes: Atley Road School (0173) opened in 1873. Remodelled in 1910. Renamed George Lansbury Primary School in 1951
Reference Number: LCC/EO/DIV05/ATL/AD/010

Name: Wm Knott
Age: 9
Birth Date: 3 May 1880 (20 March 82)
School: Atley Road School
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Admission Date: 11 Nov 1889
Parent: George (Glass Blower)

(for both, address as, 6, Ruston Street)

1891 (reference re-post)
KNOTT, George Head Married M 47 1844 Glass Manufacturer
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, James Son Single M 17 1874
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, William Son Single M 11 1880
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, Jane Daughter Single F 9 1882
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, Robert Son Single M 7 1884
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, Thomas Son Single M 5 1886
Lambeth, London
KNOTT, Arthur Son Single M 4 1887
Lambeth, London
Piece: 312
Folio: 56
Page: 24
Registration District: Mile End Old Town
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Municipal Borough:
Address: 36, St Anns Road, Mile End Old Town
County: London

(wondered if above went with 1891)

Chris :)

Oh my goodness Chris thank you, that is all new information to me.
I would not even know where to begin to find that sort of information. I use the search engine on ancestry but is there a better way ? Advise very gratefully recieved as all my stuff tends to be hit and miss.

So it would appear all the children were (happily) at school, then as you say maybe their mother was in hospital? and died. This would explain why they were placed if George could not care for them. altho you would think he would have collected them when he re married.
i wonder why they were separated and where the others went, and how Mrs Ogan fits in.... its so interesting a story unfolding

plus even tho you have provided me with this information i would not know where to find the evidential documentation above (sorry if such a novis) i really wan to learn as much as i can.

Thank you too christinaS, your suggestion of Georges wife being in hospital would make sense

Chris-Ho: I found the info.. practice ah :)

I searching Mrs Ogan atm but with no luck

Wasn't it Mrs Hogan on the admission record?

Can anyone with FMP do an 1891 address search for 35 North Street, Hackney see who was living there?

1891
113 DAVIES, Jonathan C Head Married M 27 1864 Glass Blower
Kingsland
113 DAVIES, Jane S Wife Married F 23 1868
South Hackney
113 WRIGHT, Sophia Mother In Law Widow F 55 1836 Laundress
Kingsland
113 TINSLEY, Joseph Son In Law Single M 17 1874 General Labourer
Hackney, London
114 PINCKNEY, Henry Head Married M 52 1839 Solicitors Clerk
Paddington, London
114 PINCKNEY, Marth Wife Married F 50 1841
Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire
RG number: RG12
Piece: 204
Folio: 173
Page: 19
Sub District: South Hackney
Enumeration District: 5
Ecclesiastical Parish: Christchurch
Municipal Borough: South Hackney
Address: 35, North Street, Hackney, South Hackney
County: London

Chris :)

(did see the below, next of kin given as William (Brother) address as the below Census!)

First name(s): Robert
Last name: KNOTT
Calculated year of birth: 1884
Parish of birth: Bethnal Green
Town of birth: London
County of birth: Middlesex
Age at attestation: 18 years 6 months
Attestation date: 23 January 1902
Attestation corps: 6TH BN MIDDLESEX REGIMENT
Attestation soldier number: 2585
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps: Duke Of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) - 57th & 77th Foot
The National Archives reference: WO96 / 936 / 145


1901
JONES, George C Head Married M 37 1864 Printers Warehouseman
Bethnal Green, London
JONES, Elizabeth Wife Married F 32 1869
Shoreditch, London
JONES, Kate Daughter Single F 10 1891
Bethnal Green, London
JONES, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 8 1893
Bethnal Green, London
JONES, George Son M 6 1895
Bethnal Green, London
JONES, Frederick Son M 3 1898
Bethnal Green, London
KNOTT, William Visitor Single M 19 1882 Lamp Glass Blower
Bethnal Green, London
KNOTT, Robert Visitor Single M 16 1885 Carman
Hackney, London
Piece: 295
Folio: 10
Page: 12
Registration District: Bethnal Green
Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Municipal Borough:
Address: 13, Lark Row, Bethnal Green
County: London


(not to say these are related, but thought it worth adding, also, caution!, Birthdates on School Admissions not always exact!)


Name: John Trayhorn
[Philip Trayhorn] (Weaver)
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: James Fether (Type Founder)
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 21 Dec 1862
Parish: St Pancras Parish Chapel
Borough: Camden
Father Name: John Trayhorn (Sawyer)
Spouse Father Name: James Fether
Register Type: Parish Register
(Margaret Fether. Full Age. Spinster)
(address for both as, Wilstead Street, witnesses, ? Connor, Mary Ann Fether)


Name: Margaret Feather
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Mar 1851 (Born 25 Feb. 1843)
Father's Name: James Feather (Type Founder)
Mother's name: Maragaret Feather
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Giles without Cripplegate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

Hi Flip
Yes as Mrs Ogan on one and Hogan on another,

Thanks for checking that Chris..No Mrs Hogan or Ogan?

Cindy, Can I ask why you are certain that your George Knott married Margaret Fether/Tayhorn? That George gives his place of birth as Winchester, on the 1871 census.

Is this something you already knew?

Though I can see that he has sons William and George who match up agewise with the 1881 census. Very confusing :-S

The main thing bothering me, you have confirmed that your grandfather married Ethel Franklin in 1911 which I assume you know as fact.

The marriage certificate, dated 16/4/1911 gives his age as 21 so born around 1889/1890. States his father is George, deceased (no occupation stated), and the witnesses were both from Ethel's side, so no help there.

How have you arrived at the Thomas we have been looking for, there is some considerable discrepancy with his age - what confirmation do you have his father was a glass blower?

without loking back at my records to be exact, my mother knew Thomas's father to be a glass blower, and that Thomas was placed in 'an orphanage' in her words..My mother says as told by her mother that Thomas lied about his age (reason unknown, she claims it was something to do with his pension??)
I know he had brother William (bob)

I had a historian check that i had the correct Thomas which she confirmed, confirmed the Hackney school was correct that he was removed and taken further up north later to be taken back down to London to become a baker

unfortunatly after confirming these pieces of information i was unable to afford her services (quite expensive) and we were unable to get any further with finding his mother.
So i am confident i have the right Thomas, right George, his father william, and the names of Thomas siblings..

i will go in my records and check that birthplace for george