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Herbert Bruce Brereton amended

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Gins

Gins Report 5 Apr 2013 17:01

Nice work Cheri...........Im too pooped to take an indepth look at the moment (just back from work)

Laters

:-)

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 5 Apr 2013 10:05

Claire's death at Ryerson Index - death notice may offer clues:

BENNETTS Claire Alfred
Death notice
02NOV1970 Death
[aged] 75
at R.G.H. Concord, late of Narwee
Sydney Morning Herald 05NOV1970

He was born in Adelaide on 7 Sep 1895, son of Wm Chas & Laura (nee SAUNDERS), and served in both world wars. His first marriage was in SA in 1920 to Emily Laura PERRY. She died in SA in 1942.

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 5 Apr 2013 10:01

Just found this from r*sweb - an old msg from 2006. Apparently the marriage cert of Ruby named her parents as HERBERT and Harriett (nee Draper) - apparently both deceased by 1919! The plot thickens! HAS to be a connection I reckon! Not sure if the email address would be current but worth a try - just Google her full married name:

RUBY ACACIA BLAKE
Hi all,
I am looking for any information at all on the above named person,
she was born in Clarence River NSW ca 1899, she married Henry Edward Blake
on 10th July 1919 in Paddington, according to the marriage certificate both
her parents ( Herbert and Harriet nee Draper) were dead,consent for her to
marry was given by a William Henry Young a guardian of minors.She was Henry
Edward Blake's first wife, he died in 1959 in St. Kilda but I dont know if she
outlived him or whether they divorced, or if there was any children, or maybe
Ruby had some brothers & sisters?
Any help would be much appreciated
Regards Sid.Blake


The did in fact divorce, in the mid 1930s - she divorced him on the grounds of desertion. Ruby remarried in 1945 to Claire Alfred BENNETTS (reg 10818). She is listed in the index as the groom and he as the bride (I assume due to his unusual given name!). That explains why I couldn't find her death as BLAKE. Still no luck though Claire Alfred BENNETTS died in 1970 in Concord (Newtown district) aged 75.

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 5 Apr 2013 09:47

Hm..good spotting, Gins. Did you notice - mother's name is the same!

I wonder if she was Herbert/Bertie's sister??? Hy could be a transcription error for father's given name. Seems a huge coincidence otherwise!

Hang on there is also a birth in Grafton NSW - Percy L BRERETON born to Henry & Harriet in 1900! Percy died that same year.

Then there's a Ruby A BRERETON b. 1901 to Harry & Harriett in Maclean NSW. Marriage for her (as BRERETON) in Paddington NSW in 1919 to Henry E BLAKE (reg 10136). Death of a son named Clifford Brereton BLAKE in 1967 in Newtown NSW shows parents as Henry Edward & Ruby Acacia. No death found for Ruby to 1982.

Soemthing funny going on here...! No marriage for a Hy & Harriet[t]. It bugs me that I can't find deaths for either of Herbert's parents. Maybe they also changed their names?!

Gins

Gins Report 3 Apr 2013 15:41

Does it look like Melba was an Aunt to Bertie?

Edit: No she is too young, maybe a cousin?


Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Melb Augustine Brereton
Father's Name: Hy Brereton
Mother's name: Hart Draper
Birth Place: Melbourne, Victoria
Registration Year: 1895
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 22871

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 3 Apr 2013 02:03

Vic index shows Chas Oliver BRERETON (b. Surry Hill) married Harriet DRAPER (b. Wangaratta) in 1886 (reg 6399). [parents of Herbert]

Possible birth for her in Benalla in 1865 to Edward & Elizabeth (nee H/ALFORD).

You would need to get Chas & Hart's marriage certificate to confirm. Victorian uncertified images are relatively inexpensive (about A$18 as a downloaded pdf). They seem to have disappeared as well!

Unfortunately the reason Herbert changed his surname may have gone to his grave with him :-(

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 3 Apr 2013 01:31

Death for Melba in NSW?

18661/1977 JOHNSON MELBA AUGUSTINE / / HENRIETTA


So how is she connected to Herbert?

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 3 Apr 2013 01:27

The Herbert BRERETON who died in NSW in 1980 was a son of Wm & Ada so probably not your man. Perhaps he died as JOHNSON?

Do you have deaths for either Eva or Herbert? Where were they living in 1964?

Just found in index that Eva BOUNDS (not BOUND) had a daughter named Grace BOUNDS in 1919 in Carlton (reg 9646), father not named. Then Edna May BRERETON with Herbert in 1920 (same place).

Do you know if your mum knew about a sister?

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 3 Apr 2013 01:13

Hi everyone

Yes Deed Poll does exist in Australia and you are required to change your surname legally. See www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/change+of+name/deed+poll/

Deed Poll records are held at the the Public Records Office of Victoria for 1904-1986; however, public access is shown as 'closed'. :-(

This is interesting, from NLA Trove:

The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 27 February 1931
JOHNSON V JOHNSON
The petition of Melba Augustine Johnson (formerly Brereton) for a divorce from her husband, Ernest Johnson, on the ground of desertion, was stood over generally The parties were married at Hobart on April 14, 1914. Mr. O. R. Penny appeared for the petitioner.

The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 30 October 1931
UNDEFENDED SUITS
Melba Augustine Johnson (formerly Brereton) v Ernest John Johnson. Marriage April 1914, at Hobart King street. Church rites. Issue, desertion. Decree nisi. Mr O. R. Penny tor petltioner.

Shirley

Shirley Report 31 Mar 2013 04:18

Thank you to everyone with your suggestions. I will try searching further with those suggestions. Thank you all again

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 31 Mar 2013 02:00

In the UK, anyone can call themselves what they like, as long as it isn't for fraudulent/illegal purposes. In England, one can 'officially' change ones name by Dead Poll

If you don't know if it is the same in Australia, may be the NSW (as that's were they seem to have lived) Ask a Librarian service might be able to help or advise.

http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/services/au

If you haven't already, search Trove (to 1950) to see if there is anything there which might give a clue, such as a public notice of change of name.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/

Shirley

Shirley Report 30 Mar 2013 23:55

Thanks to all with the information. I would like to know why the change of name and when did if happen if any one could tell me where to look I would be very pleased.

Gins

Gins Report 30 Mar 2013 12:43

Heres the connection

Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
about Ernest Johnson
Name: Ernest Johnson
Spouse Name: Melba Brereton
Marriage Place: Tasmania
Registration Place: Tasmania
Registration Year: 1914
Page Number: 0690

Gins

Gins Report 30 Mar 2013 12:40

Thanks MC

Shirley can you please post back on here rather than sending PMs. That way we can all see the information you have.

So the ER I posted earlier is your couple. Maybe Herbert was brought up with the Johnsone family and changed his name

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Mar 2013 12:19

pms received:

"From the information I have I am sure Eva Bounds was my mothers mother but I along side with my siblings we ave only known my mothers maiden name as Johnson. When applying for my mothers birth certificate I received the surname as been Brereton everything else seems to matcht except for the surname. I applied for the marriage ceritificate of Herbert and Eva and found that the witness was a Melba and Ernest Johnson. I can trace the Brereton Family (Herbert and Eva) up until 1937 living around the area where my mother lived before her marriage in 1942. I then can trace my grandparents herbert and Eva and also my mother in 1942 and further on untill 1964 in the same area. I do not know where to go from here. I am thinking they are the same people and for some reason changed their name. I can not ask my mother as she passed away many years ago nor can I ask her brother as his memory is not the best. Hoping somene can help me. Shirley."

and

"Yes Eva Bound from what I can work out was my mothrs mother but I am not sure of the name Brereton as the first I heard of it was when I received a birth certificate for my mother. Everything checks out with names and dates except the surname Brereton. I only knew my mother as Johnson. Shirley"

Gins

Gins Report 30 Mar 2013 12:05

Did Herbert change his name? These are at the same address as earlier ER entries and he has the same occupation, labourer


Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Name: Herbert Bruce & Eva Johnson
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1949
State: Victoria
District: Indi
Subdistrict: Alexandra

Gins

Gins Report 30 Mar 2013 11:57

She is listed as Eva here not Eve?


Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Name: Herbt Bruce Brereton
Spouse Name: Eva Bounds
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1920
Registration number: 3199

Gins

Gins Report 30 Mar 2013 11:51

Looks like siblings to Bertie


Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Charles Brereton
Birth Date: 1888
Father's Name: Charles O Brereton
Mother's name: Harriett
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1888
Registration Place: Young, New South Wales
Registration number: 38239

Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Charles Brereton
Death Date: 1888
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's Name: Charles C
Mother's name: Harriet
Registration Year: 1888
Registration Place: Young, New South Wales
Registration number: 14324



Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Gviofla J Brereton
Birth Date: 1890
Father's Name: Charles O Brereton
Mother's name: Harriett
Birth Place: New South Wales
Registration Year: 1890
Registration Place: Young, New South Wales
Registration number: 38943

Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Girofla J Brereton
Death Date: 1890
Death Place: New South Wales
Father's Name: Charles Q
Mother's name: Harriette
Registration Year: 1890
Registration Place: Forbes, New South Wales
Registration number: 5095

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Mar 2013 07:50

Wondering about this?

Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950

Name: Herbert Brereton
Spouse Name: Florrie Perkins
Marriage Date: 1923
Marriage Place: New South Wales
Registration Place: Rockdale, New South Wales
Registration Year: 1923
Registration number: 5322

EDIT: But there were a few chaps around that time with similar names.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Mar 2013 07:48

Hello Shirley, do you know the names of Herbert's parents?

Was Eve Bounds your mother's mum, or was it someone else?