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Martha Salmon b.1890 West Ham.

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Unknown Report 6 May 2013 23:16

Hello All,
Thanks for all the effort. So much to try to take in and work out [at my age that's not easy!] Marie Celeste, that's an interesting idea about George and Louisa not being Marthas' parents. Not something I'd thought of before, but Louisa Emily would only have been around 15 when she had Martha.Did that happen very often back then?With this different angle, and looking at the census' is it possible that Eliza Salmon b. 1871 could be the mother? She would have been 1, and Martha is registered as Martha Eliza Jane? Then again,Eliza's on the 1871C [year she was born] but not on the 1881 or 1891.
Also interesting, you say that on 1891C, Richard Wilsmore looks like Willbone on the original. When I received Marthas' birth cert, I thought at first her mothers' name was Louisa Caroline Salmon, formerly [what looks like] Willbonser or something like it. After spending some time trying to decifer and working out, it turned out to be Wilbourne.
ChristinaS, Thanks for the Wilbourne and Brown info. That's another tangent to go out on!
Thank you all so much for all your help, I didn't start with much, but it's just mushroomed in no time.


MarieCeleste Report 3 May 2013 18:58

Good stuff Christina! I wonder if Richard was misrecorded as Willborne in 1891?


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 13:07

Baptism for Islington 1862

Richard Philip Brown - Graham Street
parents William and Elizabeth - carman


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 12:30

1861 census - Islington - 4, Graham Street

Richard Willborne - head - 49 - labourer - Herts.
Mary Willborne - wife - 47 - Herts
Jane Willborne - dau - 18 - Limehouse
Louisa Willborne - dau - 12 - St.Lukes

and living next door:

William Brown - head - 22 - carman - Islington
Betsy Brown - wife - 21 - Islington
Martha Brown - dau - 8 mons. - Islington


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 12:16

This doesn't match exactly, but I think it must be the same family

1851 census - St.Luke - Macclesfield Road

Richard Willbon - 37 - labourer - Bishops Stortford
Mary Ann Willbon - 36 - Bulford, Essex
Elizabeth Willbon - 10 - St. Luke
Jane Willbon - 8 - St. Luke
Richard Willbon - 4 - St. Luke
Laura (Louisa) - 4 mons - St. Luke


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 10:46

Found this on the 1841 census:

Bishops Stortford

Richard Wilbourne - 25 - bargeman - Ireland
Mary Ann Wilbourne - 25
Elizabeth Wilbourne - 1

This looks likely for the Elizabeth Brown on the 1871 census. Also explains why Richard Wilbourne isn't listed under the Thames Watermen


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 10:21

So far I've not been able to find anyone from this family before 1871.

On the findmypast records of lightermen, they don't have a Richard Wilbourne


ChristinaS Report 3 May 2013 10:19

Marriage in Shoreditch - 1870

(Trouble with the copy & paste)

George Thomas Salmon - 21 - bachelor - carman - 19 Cartain Road
father Thomas Salmon - carman

Louisa Wilborne - 21 - spinster - mantle maker - 3 Gladston'e Buildings
father - Richard Wilborne - Lighterman

Witnesses: William Cleland and Elizabeth Brown


MarieCeleste Report 3 May 2013 00:04

I'm away myself now!

Census are from FindMyPast.

Next step is to confirm if Louisa Salmon and Elizabeth Brown are sisters, both nee Willbourne (or similar).

I'd suggest that the Richard Willbone (Willborne?) with George and Louisa in 1891 is the same person as Richard Brown on the 1871. Elizabeth quite likely had him before marriage - he'd be recorded under her married name when a child but may have reverted to his actual name when an adult.


Unknown Report 2 May 2013 23:58

Having trouble keeping up with you MarieCeleste! Where are you looking up the census', I couldn't find anything. Need to get some shuteye now, but will take all your info in properly tomorrow. Thanks again for all your help.


MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 23:53

Just a complete hunch, but my guess would be that George and Louisa weren't really Martha's parents. I wouldn't be surprised if Louisa Emily was actually the mother. They registered the baby in their names and then gave her to other family.


Unknown Report 2 May 2013 23:48

Hello MarieCeleste,
That was quick!! I notice Martha E. J. is not on this census. Could she already be living with her aunt and uncle, William & Martha Holloway at less than a year old? Also a big gap between her birth and Louisa Emily 15 years. Many thanks for this info.


MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 23:43


SALMON, George T Head M 21 1850 Middlesex - carman b St Lukes
SALMON, Louisa Wife F 22 1849 Middlesex - basket maker b Islington
SALMON, Eliza J Daughter F 0 1871 Essex b Plaistow
BROWN, Elizabeth Sister-In-Law F 31 1840 Hertfordshire b Bishop Stortford (married)
BROWN, Richard Nephew M 9 1862 Middlesex b St Lukes

Piece: 448 Folio: 24 Page: 8
Registration District: Shoreditch
Civil Parish: St Leonard Shoreditch

Address: Turner's Place, St Leonard Shoreditch, London County: London, Middlesex


MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 23:39

Family in 1881:

SALMON, George I Head Married M 34 1847 Coal Porter S Lukes, Middlesex
SALMON, Louisa Wife Married F 34 1847 S Lukes, Middlesex
SALMON, Thomas Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar S Lukes, Middlesex
SALMON, Emily Daughter Single F 4 1877 Plaistow, Essex

Piece: 1715 Folio: 18 Page: 30
Registration District: West Ham
Civil Parish: West Ham

Address: 3, Mark St, West Ham County: Essex

George's middle initial looks like T on original.


Unknown Report 2 May 2013 23:32

Just noticed that it couldn't have been the George T. Salmon born in West Ham in 1868, he would only have been 2 when he married Louisa. Please disregard him!!


MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 23:28

This 1891 gives a better idea of when/where the parents were born:

SALMON, Geo Thos Head Married M 42 1849 Coal Labourer St Luke, London
SALMON, Louisa Wife Married F 44 1847 St Luke, London
SALMON, Thomas James Son Single M 19 1872 Coal Labourer St Luke, London
SALMON, Louisa Emily Single F 16 1875 West Ham, Essex
WILLSMORE, Richard Single M 30 1861 Coal Labourer Army Islington, London

Piece: 1319 Folio: 99 Page: 50
Registration District: West Ham
Civil Parish: Canning Town
Municipal Borough: West Ham

Address: 24, Fulton Street, Canning Town, West Ham County: Essex

Richard's surname looks like Willbone on original.


Unknown Report 2 May 2013 23:22

Hello All,
I received the birth cert for Martha Eliza Jane Salmon today, but this has thrown up more questions!! She was born 16th june 1890, at 26 Fulton Street, Paistow, West Ham. Father was George Thomas Salmon [a coalporter], and mother was Louisa Caroline Salmon; formerly Wilbourne.
I have found a Louisa Wilbourne b. 1845 Lincolnshire
0n the 1861C, she is aged 16, a housemaid to John & Emma Basker, in Grantham, Lincs.
In 1870 a Louisa Wilbourne married George Thomas Salmon in Shoreditch.
If this is the right Louisa, she would have been 45 when she had Martha Eliza Jane, also 20 years after she married George. So I'm assuming there may have been a few other children born previously.
The 1861C is the only one that Louisa shows up on, and I can't find Louisa & George on any census' after their marriage.
I found a George Thomas Salmon, b. 1868 in West Ham [ but that would make him 23 years younger than Louisa]
The only census I could find a George Thomas Salmon on is the 1911C. he was b. 1854 [9 years after Louisa] in Shoreditch, which is where Louisa &George were married. But on the census, he is married to Eliza b. 1853 and they are living at 98 Murray Street. They have George Albert 29, Edward Henry 27, Thomas Arthur 24, Herbert Harold 22, and Eliza Alice 20, born 1891 [ about the same time as Martha Eliza Jane],
Sorry if this is confusing. Think I'll put this down and pick it up again later-might make more sense of it! I also need to look for other siblings for Martha E. J. Salmon.


Unknown Report 6 Apr 2013 21:42

Hello Marie Celeste & Jax,
Sorry, I've just re-read and seen your questions. I have Martha A Salmon [m] Arthur John Heley 1913. Also Martha A J Heley [d] a/m/j 1935 West Ham. I was thinking the AJ is Arthurs initials?
Canning Town along with Plaistow, Custom House, Woolwich, Stratford and Silvertown were all part of West Ham. Some years back East And West Ham were joined together and became Newham. East Ham had only been just East Ham though. Even though they are joined, I think the only time West Ham is refered to, it's the football team, whereas East Ham is still a 'place' [hope that makes sense!!]


Unknown Report 6 Apr 2013 21:10

Thank you all so much. Reading all your info, I'm even more confused now!! I will order the cert for Martha Eliza J and see where that takes me. I'll let you know. Thanks again.


Christine Report 5 Apr 2013 14:18


Deaths Dec 1881
Salmon William 38 W. Ham 4a 1

Sorry. I haven't got time to check it out now!