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The Black and Tans were ex-soldiers recruited as Temporary Constables of the the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC). The term was sometimes extended to the the Auxiliary Division of the RIC, which was a counter-insurgency unit of the RIC made up of former British officers. The RIC was formally disbanded on 31 August 1922.

By this time, Charles would have been 15 - so the stories don't seem likely.


However, the 1st Battalion of The Sherwood Foresters, in June 1922 returned to internal security duties again - this time in Southern Ireland where they spent a difficult if uneventful six months on guards and patrols.
http://freespace.virgin.net/stephen.mee/index.htm
So maybe the stories actually refer to Charles's dad's tour in Ireland.

if he was in the Black and Tans ..Royal Irish Constabulary

refer to http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/royal-irish-constabulary.htm

maybe

WW2

Name: C Shaw
Campaign or Service: Palestine
Service Date: 1945-1948
Service Location: Palestine
Regiment or Unit Name: Sherwood Foresters
Regimental Number: 14470566

Vena,
Are you sure that the photo you have is of Charles Jnr. (born 1907) and not of his father?

His father, also Charles, did join up when he was 19yrs old so he would have been young in any photos taken at that time. The military info that you give does seem to fit exactly that of his father's military career, even down to serving in Ireland.
Does the photo have a date on it or are you just assuming that it is Charles Jnr.?

(May be best to delete some of your responses as they have been duplicated, just to save a bit of space)
:-)

For any service after WW1, you have to apply for the records, and prove that you are the next of kin.

They cost £30.00, and take several months to arrive

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

we do think it must have been the 1920s military, maybe we need a record of sherwood foresters in 1920s if anyone can helpx

thankyou everyone,
i am trying to find the military connection for charles, shaw born 1907, i have searched but cannot find anything, yet we have a photo of him in military uniform, but that is it, as well as the dates above, all the above census are correct, but cant find where he served
he is my partners grandfather thanryone kyou eve

thankyou everyone,
i am trying to find the military connection for charles, shaw born 1907, i have searched but cannot find anything, yet we have a photo of him in military uniform, but that is it, as well as the dates above, all the above census are correct, but cant find where he served
he is my partners grandfather thanryone kyou eve

As army record gives father's name as Samuel, then this is probably him in 1881:-

1881 England Census about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel Shaw
Mother's Name: Mary Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Riddings, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Alfreton
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England

Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Alfreton
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3417
Folio: 89
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Shaw 39 - born: Riddings, Derbyshire, (coal miner)
Mary Shaw 34 - born: Codnor Park, Derbyshire
Charles Shaw 15
Phillis Shaw 13
Sophia E. Shaw 10
Harriett Shaw 7
Clara Shaw 5
Caroline Shaw 2

...............................................

and 1871:-

1871 England Census about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel Shaw
Mother's Name: Mary Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Riddings, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Alfreton
Town: Riddings
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Alfreton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 55
Piece: 3592
Folio: 50
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Shaw 30
Mary Shaw 26
Charles Shaw 5
Phillis Shaw 3
Sophia Shaw 10 Months

.........................................................

Possible marriage for this couple:-

Marriages Sep 1865 (>99%)
Brough Job Belper 7b 637
Hind Elizabeth Ann Belper 7b 637
xxxx Shaw Samuel Belper 7b 637 xxxxx
xxxx Stuart Mary Belper 7b 637 xxxxx

Father also served in WW1

No.D24147
Corps:- Sherwood Forester
Age: 45yrs
Address: 37Johnson St.
Trade: Puddler
Served before: Yes (7yrs 1st Batt.Sherwood Foresters) (4 Reserves) (5 Sec Div ?)

Next of KIn:- Hannah Shaw
Address: 37 Johnson Street, Sheepbridge, Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Married:- 28 August 1895

Children:- Mary Elizabeth (18 Feb.1900), ? (29 Nov.1901, Annie May (3 Dec.1903, Sarah Ellen (1 Feb.1906), Charles (29 Dec.1907)

Discharged:- 14:12:1918

Note date of birth of Charles is same as given in request so looks to be correct family!

Looks like the info and photos you have may be relevant to his father and not Charles Jnr.

Looks like his father may also have been in the army:-

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920 about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Age at enlistment: 19
Birth Parish: Alfreton
Birth County: Derbyshire
Document Year: 1886
Regimental Number: 1544
Regiment Name: Derbyshire Regiment
Number of images: 3

Trade:- Stoker

Served in Ireland

Discharged:- 08:07:1898

Next of Kin:- Father, Samuel

..............................................................

Here he is in 1891:-

1891 England Census about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: Alfreton, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Antony
Ecclesiastical parish: Antony
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation: Private of the Serwood Foresters

Condition as to marriage: single

Registration district: St Germans
Sub-registration district: Antony
ED, institution, or vessel: Tregantle Fort
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1806
Folio: 177
Page Number: 14

In case correct family:-

1901 England Census about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Shaw
Gender: Male
Where born: Ironville, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Alfreton
Ecclesiastical parish: Ironville Christchurch
Town: Ironville
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Registration district: Belper
Sub-registration district: Alfreton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 84
Piece: 3233
Folio: 77
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Shaw 35
Hannah Shaw 29
Gertrude Shaw 6
Samuel Shaw 4
William H Shaw 2
Mary E Shaw 1
.............................................

Possible marriage for this couple:-

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
Dennis Thomas Belper 7b 999
Radford Sarah Belper 7b 999
xxxx Charles Belper 7b 999
xxxx Hannah Belper 7b 999

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Birth Date: 29 Dec 1907
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1974
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Chesterfield
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 6
Page: 0227

How did you arrive at his name - is he a son, father, friend?
You must have some connection to him, what is it?
And what are you trying to find out about him?
Thank-you

Added:
Charles Shaw
Birth Date: 29 Dec 1907
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1974
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Chesterfield
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 6
Page: 0227

His birth
Name: Charles Shaw
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Registration district: Belper
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 748

in Nottinghamshire by 1911
1911 England Census about Charles Shaw
Name: Charles Shaw
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Alfreton, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Selston
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street Address: Sedgwick Street Jacksdale Notts
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Basford
Registration District Number: 429
Sub-registration district: Greasley
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 20371
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Shaw 45
Hannah Shaw 35
Gertrude Shaw 16
Samuel Shaw 14
William Hry Shaw 15
Mary Elizabeth Shaw 11
Phillis Shaw 9
Annice Shaw 7
Sarah Elen Shaw 5
Charles Shaw 3
Charles Taylor 19

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 20371.


Area would tie with joining the Sherwood Foresters

What exactly are you looking for?
Just military info or other?

1911 Census Household Record
Household information
Address Sedgwick St Jacksdale
Parish Selston
Town Jacksdale
Type of Building Private House
Number of Rooms 5
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN20371 RG78PN1221 RD429 SD1 ED16 SN351
Administrative County Nottinghamshire
Registration District Basford
Registration Sub District Greasley
Enumeration District 16
Householder 1
Name Charles Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married Married
Gender M
Age 45
Estimated Year of Birth 1866
Occupation Pudler
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Ironworks
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 2
Name Hannah Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Condition / Years Married Married / 15 Years
Total Children Born Alive 8
Children Still Living 7
Children Who Have Died 1
Gender F
Age 35
Estimated Year of Birth 1876
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 3
Name Gertrude Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 16
Estimated Year of Birth 1895
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 4
Name Samuel Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 14
Estimated Year of Birth 1897
Occupation Labourer
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Ironworks
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 5
Name William Hry Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 13
Estimated Year of Birth 1898
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 6
Name Mary Elizabeth Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1900
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 7
Name Phillis Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1902
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Jacksdale Notts
Householder 8
Name Annice Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 7
Estimated Year of Birth 1904
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Ulfreton Derbyshire
Householder 9
Name Sarah Ellen Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1906
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Attercliffe Yorkshire
Householder 10
Name Charles Shaw
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1908
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire
Householder 11
Name Charles Taylor
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender M
Age 19
Estimated Year of Birth 1892
Occupation Pudler
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Ironworks
Place of Birth Alfreton Derbyshire

hi well the information is very little, we have to go on, we know that charl,es shaw born december 29th 1907... in ironville alfreton derbyshire, we know he went into military but cannot find him listed, my partner was told he served with the black and tans as who were the irish police, but a pic we have has a badge on his uniform that appears to be one from sherwood foresters, but unsure of this, we have no other info on him can anyone please help, or make any suggestions
thankyou