Find Ancestors

Death 1915 HETHERINGTON Mary A 79 Runcorn Halton

(above on below link)

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/index.php

Chris :)

thank you!

Josephine,
You say you can't get back any further than Josephine Morris Hayes, do you mean that you can't get further back just on her father's side (with her being illegitimate) or on her mother's side also?

on her mothers side as well

I have a theory about her mother's side of the family????

Josephine was illegitimate, therefore her mother's name must have been Hayes.
If the baptism record is the correct one, then her mother was called Mary Jane Hayes.

As Josephine was brought up by her Great Aunt , Mary Ann Hetherington (who never married), then Mary Jane's mother and Mary Ann must have been sisters.

There are very few marriages between Hetherington and Hayes, and only one for a female Hetherington to a male Hayes:-

Marriages Dec 1866 (>99%)
Bowker Thomas Manchester 8d 240
xxxx HAYES Henry Manchester 8d 240 xxxx
xxxx Hetherington Jane Manchester 8d 240 xxxx
Webb Mary A Manchester 8d 240

Looking on the census records I found this:-

1881 England Census about Mary J. Hayes
Name: Mary J. Hayes
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry Hayes
Mother's Name: Jane Hayes
Gender: Female
Where born: Moore, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Moore
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Brow Farm
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Daresbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3513
Folio: 71
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Hayes 54 -Occupation: Farmer Of 90 Acres Em 4 Lab & 3 Boys
Jane Hayes 38 - born: Cumoivic, Cumberland (1843)
Jonathan Hayes 13
Herbert Hayes 12
Mary J. Hayes 11
Henry Hayes 9
Gilbert Hayes 4
Ernest Hayes 2
Stanley Hayes 1
Mary Stoke 18
Eve Rigby 13
Thomas Ryan 28
William Manion 23

(Living, Runcorn, so correct area and mother is born in Cumberland)
.................................................

same family in 1891:-

1891 England Census about Mary Jane Hayes
Name: Mary Jane Hayes
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry Hayes
Gender: Female
Where born: Moor, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Daresbury
Ecclesiastical parish: Daresbury
Town: Daresbury
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: (looks like Chester Road)

Occupation:(of father:- Farmer)

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Daresbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2830
Folio: 5
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Hayes 64
Jonathan Hayes 23
Herbert Hayes 22
Mary Jane Hayes 21
Henry Hayes 19
Ernest Hayes 12
Standley Hayes 11
Lottie Hayes 8
Leonard Hayes 6
Thomas Cassady 22
Sarah Grice 19

Going back to mother Jane:-

This looks to be her in 1851:-

1851 England Census about Jane Hetherington
Name: Jane Hetherington
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Hetherington
Mother's Name: Jane Hetherington
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Dalton, Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Norton
Town: Norton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Budworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 37
Piece: 2164
Folio: 283
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hetherington 41
Jane Hetherington 40
xxxx Mary Ann Hetherington 15 xxxx (born: Dalton, Cumberland 1836)
David Hetherington 12
Elizabeth Hetherington 10
Jane Hetherington 8
Nancy Hetherington 6
John Hetherington 4
Andrew Hetherington 2

..............here again living in correct area, born Cumberland and she does have a sister Mary Ann who was born at the correct date and place.

You are a star!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it all seems to fit in....Joseph Morris owned/lived on a farm in Moore, also the fact that Miss Hetherington looked after Josephine and had a married sister, THANK YOU SO MUCH
the two farms would have been close by so..............
I think I can now continue their tree, have ordered a marriage cert. for Josephine so fingers crossed
Jo

1841:-

1841 England Census about John Heatherington
Name: John Heatherington
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Cumberland, England
Civil parish: Dalston
Hundred: Cumberland
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street Address: (looks like) Coundivoch

Occupation: Farmer

Registration district: Carlisle
Sub-registration district: Dalston
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 164
Book: 20
Folio: 4
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Heatherington 30
Jane Heatherington 30
Mary Heatherington 5
David Heatherington 2
Elizabeth Heatherington 5 Mo

Also a possible marriage for Mary Jane Hayes (possible mother of Josephine)

Marriages Sep 1905 (>99%)
EDGE Elizabeth Runcorn 8a 511
xxxx HAYES Mary Jane Runcorn 8a 511 xxxx
JEFFS Harry Runcorn 8a 511
ROWLES Charles Samuel Runcorn 8a 511

................but this is all speculation so you will need to look into it all a bit closer and get some proof from some certificates.

...........................
1911
This looks to fit above marriage, but it states that the couple have been married for 12yrs, which is not true?

However, Josephine would be 12yrs old in 1911, so that fits. Maybe the couple just said that they had been married for 12yrs in case someone knew that she had another child????

ROWLES, Charles Samuel Head Married M 35 1876 Casemaker Runcorn VIEW
ROWLES, Mary Jane Wife Married12 years F 36 1875 Salford VIEW
ROWLES, Richard Ardell Son M 9 1902 Lower Bebington VIEW
ROWLES, Isabel Margaret Daughter F 7 1904 Lower Bebington VIEW
ROWLES, Charles Samuel Son M 4 1907 Lower Bebington VIEW
ROWLES, Janet Mary Daughter F 3 1908 Lower Bebington VIEW

RG number: RG14 Piece: 21927 Reference: RG14PN21927 RG78PN1306 RD451 SD3 ED1 SN244 Registration District: Wirral Sub District: Bebington Enumeration District: 1 Parish: Lower Bebington Address: 15 Bromborough Road Lower Bebington Cheshire County: Cheshire

5 children, all living.

{Just realised that this Mary Jane was born in Salford, so may not be your Mary Jane} DRAT!

Baptism
Forenames:Mary Jane
Surname:Hayes
Sex:Female
Christening Year:1870
Christening Date:15 Apr 1870
Date of Birth:
Place of Birth:
Father's Forenames:Henry (Farmer)
Father's Surname:Hayes
Mother's Forename:Jane
Mother's Surname:Hayes
City or Town:Daresbury
County:Cheshire
(abode, Moor)

(adding to Catherine's find)

Chris :)

(below the 1905 Marriage)

Forenames:Charles Samuel
Surname:Rowles
Marriage Date:02 Jul 1905
Marriage Year:1905
Age:27y
Record Group:08-0497 p1
Ref ID:Page: 21 Record number: 41
Spouse's Forenames:Mary Jane
Spouse's Surname:Hayes
Spouse's Age:19y
Spouse's Father's Name:Frank Hayes (Labourer)
Parish:
City / Town:
County:Cheshire
(abode for her as, Stone Street)

Off to get tea ready now, but will look in later. :-)

I realise it is speculation but the Hayes/Hetherington combination just rings true, when i have asked my older relatives about the history they just say that they didn`t really ask questions but just accepted things that were said, I am so pleased that you made contact
Jo

Oh well, marriage posted by Chris seems to confirm that it is not your Mary Jane but at least we can rule that one out.

Findmypast version of 1911 census:-

MORRIS, Joseph Head Single M 42 1869 Farmer Cheshire Wharton VIEW
BISH, Robert William Servant Married M 47 1864 Waggoner On Farm Sussex Haywood Heath VIEW
BISH, Jane Ellen Servant Married15 years F 45 1866 Housekeeper Lancs Liverpool VIEW
BISH, James Arthur Visitor M 10 1901 School Cheshire Bowdon VIEW
KEELTY, John Servant Single M 29 1882 Farm Labourer Sligo Keash VIEW
KEELTY, Martin Servant Single M 27 1884 Cowman On Farm Sligo Keash VIEW

RG number: RG14 Piece: 21619 Reference: RG14PN21619 RD446 SD2 ED3 SN33 Registration District: Runcorn Sub District: Runcorn Enumeration District: 3 Parish: Address: Moss Side Moore Warrington County: Cheshire

........................posting because this show Joseph as aged 42yrs and born 1869.

Have checked original and age does look like 42yrs., which changes everything as far as Joseph is concerned.

do you think I have the wrong Joseph? I used Ancestry 1911 census, hence Joseph being 49 at that time, all the other names appear the same and their ages are the same?

still trying to trace joseph morris using 1869 as date of birth

Sorry having loads of problems with my computer so not very quick.

What about this one?

1901 England Census about Joseph Morris
Name: Joseph Morris
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Wharton, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Norton
Ecclesiastical parish: Halton St Mary
Town: Norton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Moss Side

Occupation: Farmer

Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Runcorn
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Piece: 3333
Folio: 50
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Morris 33
Joseph Ball 46
Margt Ball 39
Wm Ball 14
Annie Ball 11
James Towey 28
Richard Grady 240

..................looks to be the same one from 1911 census!

Hi, thanks for getting back to me and your research! The top section all seems to fit, birth place was Wharton Cheshire and my auntie tells me that he deffinitely lived on moss side....difference from 1911 census is that the householders names are different, on 1911 there were three `Bish` members and two Keelty, it sounds promising, which search engine did you use to find the above?

Only 3 birth records for Joseph Morris 1869 +/- 1yr:-

Births Jun 1867 (>99%)
Morris Joseph Northwich 8a 255 xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Births Dec 1867 (>99%)
Morris Joseph Congleton 8a 235

Births Jun 1868 (>99%)
MORRIS Joseph Gt. Boughton 8a 4070

At this time Nothwich was the registration district for Wharton!