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please someone...find me Mary Ann Cooper or Mary Ann Kelly in 1901 census...i am going bog-eyed,looking.
Have put in every permutation i can think of,and STILL can't find her,or any of her children who were born before 1901...Ellen Jane(Nellie?) and Elizabeth Ann.

have Mary Ann Kelly in 1891,living at home with her parents......have her with her husband and family,inc Nellie(Ellen Jane??)in 1911,but she seems to have disappeared in 1901,along with Ellen Jane and another dau,Elizabeth Ann Cooper.

Could someone please have a look for them please? thnx

Christina,I rang my auntie last night...she is Jane Ellen's eldest daughter,Elsie.
I asked her how grandma Evans came to be living at 37,Sumner St in 1917...she said that was were her uncle Jack lived(grandads' brother,John Evans and his wife..she thinks she was called Harriet)

She doesn't rem any Coopers from when she was small,except that there was a midwife in Crown st.,Atherton,when she was growing up. Don't know if this is helpful or not,but Crown st is about a 2 min walk from Sumner st,where Jane Ellen lived,prior to her marriage.

She does rem being taken,as a little girl,to visit her "aunty" Amelia Bradshaw,in Walthew St.,Platt Bridge.,Wigan,but doesn't know if this was a real aunty,a close friend of one of her parents that they called aunty,or whether it was the woman her mother,Jane Ellen was fostered by!

Am now going to see are there any Amelia's in the Kelly family,

Elaine

Margaret A Cooper's mother's maiden name was Cooper. So daughter of one of Richard's sisters?

From Lancashire BMD...

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
COOPER Margaret Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh COOPER

St Johns is Atherton Parish Church,where I made my confirmation!
Looked at Coopers in 1901as you asked....looking at image,there some on next page..but no Mary Ann.
There were:- Ellen Cooper.,17.,dau. b.Wigan
Mgt E Cooper.,14,.b Wigan.dau.
Esther E Cooper.,12.b Wigan.dau.
Margaret A Cooper.,grand-daughter.,4mths.b Wigan......does she belong to Richard who is married,but down as single,or James down as married?

It's very strange that Jane Ellen names her father as William Griffiths on her second marriage, yet mentions no father on her first.

Also to give her maiden name as Griffiths on her children's birth registrations, yet she was born Kelly.

I notice that she was living at 37 Sumner Street, Atherton in 1917 when she married Eli Evans.

There are a further 3 possible children for Mary Ann & Richard Cooper whose births were registered in Atherton according to Lancashire BMD. (including a set of twins born in 1917).

Unfortunately, if they were baptised at St John's (where Jane Ellen married Eli) baptisms have not yet been transcribed for those dates, so the only way to see if the Coopers address in 1917 was the same as Jane Ellen's would be to buy a birth cert for one of the twins.

Ah, sorry Elaine. I'm unable to view details as I don't have a sub. No it doesn't look like her does it?

Strange she's not there and also Mary & Richard's daughter Elizabeth Ann.


Edit: Have you looked at the image for the 1901 showing Richard and his family, in case they have been missed off the transcription?

Doesn't sound like my Mary A....this one is a servant(cook),living 5,Rodny St.,Liverpool.Also she down as born Shrewsbury.,Shropshire....on census, my Mary Ann was born Whitchurch.,Shropshire.

I going to Mass shortly,then have to go out..will be back this aft..thnx again for the help.
(I got all the Kelly births in Wigan between 1888 & 1898,off GR,and am in process of eliminating them,to see can I find any more of Mary Ann's children..2 more besides the twins?)

Also, they already had a child Elizabeth Ann Cooper.

Who was she living with in 1901?

Elizabeth A Cooper b1899 Lancashire.

Will look now..thnx

She's there Elaine, but I don't have a subscription to bring up full details.

Are you looking on Ancestry?

If so, enter.......

First name: Mary A

Last Name: Cooper

Birthplace.....County or Island: Shropshire

Birth Year: 1870

Nothing else in any other field.

Edited to add Birthplace above.

I can't find her Christina!
Her mum,dad,brother Richard and sisters Elizabeth & Rosina are living 53,Broom St.Ince,but she's not with them.
1911 finds Maria has died,and Thomas is living in Carmarthen,with son,John William and his family,and Thomas' other son,Richard.

Where did you find that Mary Ann living?

Elaine, who is Mary Ann living with in 1901?

Mary A Cooper b1870 Shropshire.

1901UKCensus.
59,Warrington Rd,Wigan.
Head.,Andrew Cooper(58)Coal Miner.Hewer. b.Wigan.
Wife.,Ann Cooper(47).b.Wigan.
Son.,Richard Cooper(30).CoalMiner.Hewer.b.Wigan.
Son.,James Cooper(28).Coal Miner.Hewer.b.Wigan.
Dau.,Margaret Cooper(23).Pit Brow Woman.b.Wigan.

This is strange.....if the marriage for Richard Cooper and Mary Ann Kelly in 1898,is correct(witnesses names are consistent..James Cooper is brother of Richard...Mary Ann has sister,Elizabeth Ann.)......then why is Richard back living with his parents,and down on Census as single (James down as married)?

59,Warrington Rd. is the place of abode when Richard Cooper and Mary Ann's daughter,Alice,was bapt. In July 1901.

Also,in the above post,could Nellie be my grandma,Ellen Jane? Census(1911) has her as age 18,b.1893,which was when Ellen Jane was born.

Any ideas anyone,please?

1911 UK Census....1,Fairhurst Yard,off Great George St.,Wigan.
Head.,John Richard Cooper(40) Coal Hewer .,b.Wigan
Wife.,Mary Ann Cooper(43) Housework..b.Wigan
Dau.,Nellie Cooper(18) Housework..b.Wigan
Dau.,Elizabethann Cooper(11) School..b.Wigan
Dau.,Alice Cooper(9).School..b.Wigan
Son.,John William Cooper(7)..b.Wigan
Son.,Henery Cooper(5)..School..b.Wigan
Brother.,William Cooper(26)..Coal Miner Underground..b.Wigan

On census it says Mary Ann had 9 children,5 alive in 1911..4 died(were the twins 2 of them?)

Christina....wow that means the Mary Ann who died in 1897 isn't mine! Thats good.Thankyou for all the info...I never even thought of looking for a marriage for Mary Ann...I was sure my grandma was "fostered" cos her mother died when she was a wee girl.
When grandma Evans(Jane Ellen)married for the first time in 1915,she was living 50,QUEEN STREET!!...I have a copy of her wedding cert.

Also,my grandad WAS right when he said mi grandma had brothers!

I have gone through all the censuses from 1841-1911,tracing Mary Anns parents....he put on most of the censuses that he was born Llangollen.,Denbighshire.,Wales....but on 1851 census,Thomas and his sister Catherine are down as birthplace..Stone.,Staffs.
On 1861 census,him and Catherine again down as born Stone.,Staffs,along with 3 more brothers,William,James and Peter.

On 1871 census,Thomas,(b Denbighshire),Maria(b.Manchester)Thomas E(b.Preston)and Mary Ann(b.Whitchurch.,Shrops)are boarders at 1,Hanover St.,Hanley.,Stoke on Trent.,Staffs...Thomas jr was 2 and Mary Ann was 6 mths.

1881 find the family in Broughton Terrace.,Ruabon,Wrexham..this time Maria has birthplace Madely.,Staffs.

1891 and 1901 has Marias birthplace back as Manchester!

So there is a connection with Staffs.

So,I wonder if that was maybe how Richard and Mary Ann could have met?

PS..I'm so glad she wasnt the one who died!

But i do wonder about the Mary Ann who gave birth in the Workhouse,to twins who died at hrs old...was she the same one? Did her father throw her out when she was pregnant? Must try and see neighbours in Canal St,when Jane Ellen was born in 1893....one of the twins was called Thomas(Mary Anns fathers name)wonder if Samuel was the other "grandad"?

Still dont know why no father at 1st marriage,but father William Griffiths at 2nd wedding! lol.....strange!

There is a Mary A Cooper b1870 Shropshire living in Lancashire in 1901.

I can't see any other details without a sub.

Will someone please post full census details for her and also for the 1911 census above?

Thank you.

If Mary Ann, with Thomas as father, is your Ellen Jane's mother, then this looks like her marriage, from Lancs OPC...........

Marriage: 1 Aug 1898 St Catharine, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Richard Cooper - (X), 28, Collier, Bachelor, 21 Morris' Row
Mary Ann Kelly - (X), 27, Spinster, 21 Morris' Row
Groom's Father: Andrew Cooper, Collier
Bride's Father: Thomas Kelly, Collier
Witness: James Cooper; Elizabeth Kelly, (X)
Married by Banns by: Herbt. H. Abdy Curate
Register: Marriages 1898 - 1904, Page 18, Entry 36
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives




I don't have a subscription, so can't check full details, but this appears to be the family in 1911, with Ellen Jane listed as Nellie..........

HOUSEHOLD COOPER ALICE F 1902 9 Wigan Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD COOPER ELIZABETHANN F 1900 11 Wigan Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD COOPER HENRY M 1906 5 Wigan Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD COOPER JOHN RICHARD M 1871 40 Wigan Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD COOPER JOHN WILLIAM M 1904 7 Wigan Lancashire
HOUSEHOLD COOPER MARY ANN F 1868 43 Wigan Lancashire
>>>>>>>HOUSEHOLD COOPER NELLIE F 1893 18 Wigan Lancashire<<<<<<< Ellen Jane???
HOUSEHOLD COOPER WILLIAM M 1885 26 Wigan Lancashire




Lancashire BMD confirms mother's maiden name as Kelly for Elizabeth Ann, Alice, John William and Henry (James Henry).




Baptism for three of their children from Lancs OPC..........

Baptism: 16 Jul 1901 St Mary, Ince, Lancashire, England
Alice Cooper - [Child] of Richard Cooper & Mary Ann
Born: 9 Jul 1901
Abode: 59 Warrington Rd.
Occupation: Collier
Notes: P.
Baptised by: R. Whitehead
Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1902, Page 182, Entry 1452
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Baptism: 24 Jul 1906 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire, England
James Henry Cooper - [Child] of Richard Cooper & Mary Ann
Abode: Goose Green Pemberton
Occupation: Collier
Notes: P.
Baptised by: W. Walker
Register: Baptisms 1893 - 1909, Page 410, Entry 3280
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Baptism: 14 Jun 1912 St Thomas, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Grace Ann Cooper - [Child] of Richard Cooper & Mary Ann
Born: 5 Jun 1912
Abode: 54 Queen St.
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: R. Tebbs, Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1885 - 1927, Page 269, Entry 2147
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives


So the family was living at 54 Queen Street in 1912.


Elaine, what was your grandmother's address shown as on her first wedding cert?

Have contacted loads of other members on here and on Ancestry re Mary Ann Kelly being on their trees.
Got a reply today,from a lady who HAS a Mary Ann Kelly on her tree(i have mine down as 1868,but only worked that out on the understanding that she was the M A Kelly who died in 1897).
She also told me details of the 1891 Census,and I checked.....Thomas Kelly(48)b.Llangollen.,Wales.,his wife,Maria(43)b.Manchester,their 6 children,and a lodger,lived 4,CANAL ST.,WIGAN!!....the same house AND door number as on my grandma,Ellen Janes' baptism!!
AND,one of the children was MARY ANN KELLY,b.c1871
Please,someone tell me I have found the right line now?

Thnx a million Christina. I've had a comp for about 5yrs now...feeling proud of how much i can do,but learning something new every day!(not learned about links yet tho,lol!)
Even tho I'm now in N.Ireland,I am a Lancashire Lass(Atherton..between Wigan and Bolton)
;-)
Elaine