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Thomas Kelly.b.c1843.,Llangollen.,Denbighshire.,

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Elaine

Elaine Report 27 Apr 2013 10:14

I have run out of credits. Could someone with a subscription please look up a birth for me,to get parents(?)details?

MARY ANN KELLY.,b.1871.Shropshire

Thankyou.

Have parents details now....thnx for all who helped

Maddie

Maddie Report 27 Apr 2013 10:17

Birth record transcript
Civil registration event: Birth
View the original image

Name: KELLY, Mary Ann

Registration district: [?] Wigan

County: Lancashire

Year of registration: 1868

Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec

Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3

Volume no:[?]8C

Page no:[?]39

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 10:24

From FreeBMD, the volume & page no. of the above record are definitely 8c and 39.

Two transcribers thought so, and it's quite clear on the image of the original.

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2013 10:28

'Could' be this one??

Lancs BMD site gives mm name as KINIRY ?

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1868
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
83

KELLY Mary Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh KINIRY WIG/88/470

What else do you know about her please?

Dea x

Elaine

Elaine Report 27 Apr 2013 10:35

Not a lot! Was hoping Mary Ann could be my gt grandma.
I found a Mary Ann age 2,on the 1871 census,with mother Mary Kelly.(b.Ireland)They were lodging in Wigan with a Catherine Coote and her children..one of whom was b.Ireland.

Just a thought...Kiniry sounds a bit like McHenry?

Reggie

Reggie Report 27 Apr 2013 10:35

You can't get parents' details without purchasing the birth cert.

Which site's credits do you think you need to look at a birth registration?

They are free on freebmd......and in this instance, on LancsBMD

Use the Lancs BMD info to look for the marriage of the parents.............

Reggie

Reggie Report 27 Apr 2013 10:38

You should work back from what you know about her.............

Did she marry?

If so, get the marriage cert, to find out whether she knew her father's details

Have you found her on later censuses?

Where do they say she was born?


In 1871, was the mother a married woman?

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2013 10:40

1871 for reference:

1871 census transcription details for: Back Of Vauxhall Road Peer's Court, Wigan
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 3885
Folio: 59
Page: 14
Reg. District: Wigan
Sub District: Wigan
Parish: Wigan
Enum. District: 10
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Wigan
Address: Back Of Vauxhall Road Peer's Court, Wigan
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
COOTE, Catherine Head F 55 1816
COOTE, James Son M 28 1843
COOTE, Catherine Daughter F 20 1851
COOTE, Elizabeth Daughter F 18 1853 Ireland
COOTE, Peter Son M 15 1856 Lancashire
KELLY, Mary Lodger F 25 1846 Ireland
KELLY, Mary Ann Daughter F 2 1869 Lancashire


It does say that Mary Kelly was married!

Dea x

Pam

Pam Report 27 Apr 2013 10:40

Mary Ann's marriage certificate should give her father's name.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 10:52

????

Marriages Dec 1867 (>99%)
KELLY Edward Wigan 8c 114
Kinniry Honora Wigan 8c 114

Elaine

Elaine Report 27 Apr 2013 10:54

Dea..where did it say Mary Kelly was married please?
This is the family I found,but didn't see any marital status.
Mary Ann was a single woman when she had my gran in 1893/4...I thought her mother may have been single too,leaving Ireland when pregnant.
Have been told by family that my gran,Jane Ellen,was fostered out when young...this ties in with the death in Wigan ,12th May.1897,of a Mary Ann Kelly,aged 29.Ince.
Jane Ellen would only have been 3/4 yrs old then.

Pam...now Dea has told me Mary was married,I will look for details,and if I can find them,I'll send for the cert.

Reggie,I can't find them on later censuses.Will keep on looking tho,in case I missed something.

Thankyou all for the assistance

Elaine

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2013 10:55

If you could give us the details you have leading back to Mary Ann we may be able to trace the correct details for you?

Dea x

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 10:55

???? (Re Kelly/Kinniry marriage above)


1871 England Census about Edward Killey
Name: Edward Killey
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Honora Killey
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Wigan
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Wigan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Household schedule number: 152
Piece: 3889
Folio: 44
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Killey 29
Honora Killey 25 born Ireland
Mary A Killey 2 born Wigan
Thomas Killey 9 Months born Wigan
Thomas Hefferan 30
Thomas Welsh 3

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 11:08

Elaine -
do you mean your gran Jane Ellen's maiden name was Kelly?

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2013 11:10

Now then, THIS is the 1871 to match the birth I posted above:

1871 census transcription details for: Elbow Lane, Wigan
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 3889
Folio: 44
Page: 33
Reg. District: Wigan
Sub District: Wigan
Parish: Wigan
Enum. District: 36
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Wigan
Address: Elbow Lane, Wigan
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
KELLEY, Edward Head M 29 1842 Ireland
KELLEY, Honora Wife F 25 1846 Ireland
KELLEY, Mary A Daughter F 2 1869 Lancashire
KELLEY, Thomas Son M 0 1871 Lancashire
HEFFERAN, Thomas Boarder M 30 1841 Ireland
WELSH, Thomas Boarder M 3 1868 Scotland

This would be the marriage:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1867
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KINNIRY Honora KELLY Edward Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/24/74


HOWEVER, this would mean that the Mary Ann you have on 1871 is a different one to the one here !

What proof have you that the one you found in 1871 with mother as Mary is the correct one?

We really do need to work backwards here from what you have 'proof' of .

Dea x

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 11:13

That's the same as the "Killey" 1871 record I posted.
It links with the Kelly/Kinniry marriage also posted above, and with Dea's mention of Kiniry as possible mms.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 11:17

If Jane Ellen's maiden name was Kelly - (not that it's any help with her mother's or grandparents' names)

???


1901 England Census about Jane Kelly
Name: Jane Kelly
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Pauper Inmate (Pauper)
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Kirkdale
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Kirkdale
ED, institution, or vessel: Kirkdale Industrials School
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 3472
Folio: 260
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Jane Kelly 8

(plus large numbers of other children, including other Kellys, not necessarily related.)

EDIT: There are 27 pages to this record - dozens of children.

Dea

Dea Report 27 Apr 2013 11:23

Sorry Argyllgran - I keep losing the page to error messages - I DO now see that you have already posted the info I have put above :-0

Still, It does mean we are thinking along the same lines ;-) :-)

What we really need is ALL the info to work backwards from.

Dea Xxx

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 27 Apr 2013 11:29

Is this your gran, Ellen Jane Kelly.....from Lancs OPC


Baptism: 30 Aug 1893 St Catharine, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Ellen Jane Kelly - [Child] of Mary Ann Kelly, Single woman
Born: 18 Jun 1893
Abode: 4 Canal Street
Notes: [Father's name recorded as 'John' but deleted]
Baptised by: F. W. Boumphrey Curate
Register: Baptisms 1888 - 1893, Page 99, Entry 791
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Apr 2013 11:31

No probs, Dea - wasn't complaining, just clarifying!