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Thomas Kelly.b.c1843.,Llangollen.,Denbighshire.,

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Elaine

Elaine Report 4 May 2013 20:48

1911 UK Census....1,Fairhurst Yard,off Great George St.,Wigan.
Head.,John Richard Cooper(40) Coal Hewer .,b.Wigan
Wife.,Mary Ann Cooper(43) Housework..b.Wigan
Dau.,Nellie Cooper(18) Housework..b.Wigan
Dau.,Elizabethann Cooper(11) School..b.Wigan
Dau.,Alice Cooper(9).School..b.Wigan
Son.,John William Cooper(7)..b.Wigan
Son.,Henery Cooper(5)..School..b.Wigan
Brother.,William Cooper(26)..Coal Miner Underground..b.Wigan

On census it says Mary Ann had 9 children,5 alive in 1911..4 died(were the twins 2 of them?)

Elaine

Elaine Report 5 May 2013 09:08

1901UKCensus.
59,Warrington Rd,Wigan.
Head.,Andrew Cooper(58)Coal Miner.Hewer. b.Wigan.
Wife.,Ann Cooper(47).b.Wigan.
Son.,Richard Cooper(30).CoalMiner.Hewer.b.Wigan.
Son.,James Cooper(28).Coal Miner.Hewer.b.Wigan.
Dau.,Margaret Cooper(23).Pit Brow Woman.b.Wigan.

This is strange.....if the marriage for Richard Cooper and Mary Ann Kelly in 1898,is correct(witnesses names are consistent..James Cooper is brother of Richard...Mary Ann has sister,Elizabeth Ann.)......then why is Richard back living with his parents,and down on Census as single (James down as married)?

59,Warrington Rd. is the place of abode when Richard Cooper and Mary Ann's daughter,Alice,was bapt. In July 1901.

Also,in the above post,could Nellie be my grandma,Ellen Jane? Census(1911) has her as age 18,b.1893,which was when Ellen Jane was born.

Any ideas anyone,please?

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 09:22

Elaine, who is Mary Ann living with in 1901?

Mary A Cooper b1870 Shropshire.

Elaine

Elaine Report 5 May 2013 09:32

I can't find her Christina!
Her mum,dad,brother Richard and sisters Elizabeth & Rosina are living 53,Broom St.Ince,but she's not with them.
1911 finds Maria has died,and Thomas is living in Carmarthen,with son,John William and his family,and Thomas' other son,Richard.

Where did you find that Mary Ann living?

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 09:39

She's there Elaine, but I don't have a subscription to bring up full details.

Are you looking on Ancestry?

If so, enter.......

First name: Mary A

Last Name: Cooper

Birthplace.....County or Island: Shropshire

Birth Year: 1870

Nothing else in any other field.

Edited to add Birthplace above.

Elaine

Elaine Report 5 May 2013 09:41

Will look now..thnx

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 09:47

Also, they already had a child Elizabeth Ann Cooper.

Who was she living with in 1901?

Elizabeth A Cooper b1899 Lancashire.

Elaine

Elaine Report 5 May 2013 09:53

Doesn't sound like my Mary A....this one is a servant(cook),living 5,Rodny St.,Liverpool.Also she down as born Shrewsbury.,Shropshire....on census, my Mary Ann was born Whitchurch.,Shropshire.

I going to Mass shortly,then have to go out..will be back this aft..thnx again for the help.
(I got all the Kelly births in Wigan between 1888 & 1898,off GR,and am in process of eliminating them,to see can I find any more of Mary Ann's children..2 more besides the twins?)

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 10:01

Ah, sorry Elaine. I'm unable to view details as I don't have a sub. No it doesn't look like her does it?

Strange she's not there and also Mary & Richard's daughter Elizabeth Ann.


Edit: Have you looked at the image for the 1901 showing Richard and his family, in case they have been missed off the transcription?

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 11:59

It's very strange that Jane Ellen names her father as William Griffiths on her second marriage, yet mentions no father on her first.

Also to give her maiden name as Griffiths on her children's birth registrations, yet she was born Kelly.

I notice that she was living at 37 Sumner Street, Atherton in 1917 when she married Eli Evans.

There are a further 3 possible children for Mary Ann & Richard Cooper whose births were registered in Atherton according to Lancashire BMD. (including a set of twins born in 1917).

Unfortunately, if they were baptised at St John's (where Jane Ellen married Eli) baptisms have not yet been transcribed for those dates, so the only way to see if the Coopers address in 1917 was the same as Jane Ellen's would be to buy a birth cert for one of the twins.

Elaine

Elaine Report 5 May 2013 13:16

St Johns is Atherton Parish Church,where I made my confirmation!
Looked at Coopers in 1901as you asked....looking at image,there some on next page..but no Mary Ann.
There were:- Ellen Cooper.,17.,dau. b.Wigan
Mgt E Cooper.,14,.b Wigan.dau.
Esther E Cooper.,12.b Wigan.dau.
Margaret A Cooper.,grand-daughter.,4mths.b Wigan......does she belong to Richard who is married,but down as single,or James down as married?

Christina (Lancashire)

Christina (Lancashire) Report 5 May 2013 13:41

Margaret A Cooper's mother's maiden name was Cooper. So daughter of one of Richard's sisters?

From Lancashire BMD...

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
COOPER Margaret Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh COOPER

Elaine

Elaine Report 6 May 2013 10:52

Christina,I rang my auntie last night...she is Jane Ellen's eldest daughter,Elsie.
I asked her how grandma Evans came to be living at 37,Sumner St in 1917...she said that was were her uncle Jack lived(grandads' brother,John Evans and his wife..she thinks she was called Harriet)

She doesn't rem any Coopers from when she was small,except that there was a midwife in Crown st.,Atherton,when she was growing up. Don't know if this is helpful or not,but Crown st is about a 2 min walk from Sumner st,where Jane Ellen lived,prior to her marriage.

She does rem being taken,as a little girl,to visit her "aunty" Amelia Bradshaw,in Walthew St.,Platt Bridge.,Wigan,but doesn't know if this was a real aunty,a close friend of one of her parents that they called aunty,or whether it was the woman her mother,Jane Ellen was fostered by!

Am now going to see are there any Amelia's in the Kelly family,

Elaine

Elaine

Elaine Report 6 May 2013 21:03

have Mary Ann Kelly in 1891,living at home with her parents......have her with her husband and family,inc Nellie(Ellen Jane??)in 1911,but she seems to have disappeared in 1901,along with Ellen Jane and another dau,Elizabeth Ann Cooper.

Could someone please have a look for them please? thnx

Elaine

Elaine Report 7 May 2013 16:38

please someone...find me Mary Ann Cooper or Mary Ann Kelly in 1901 census...i am going bog-eyed,looking.
Have put in every permutation i can think of,and STILL can't find her,or any of her children who were born before 1901...Ellen Jane(Nellie?) and Elizabeth Ann.

Mary

Mary Report 7 May 2013 18:24

No Elaine ,I couldn't find them either.

Maryb

Elaine

Elaine Report 7 May 2013 19:37

they seem to have disappeared Mary....cant understand why she wasnt with Richard Cooper in 1901...she had his baby not long before,and had more children after.

I even looked at Welsh Census,in case she was visiting there.

Dont have a clue where to look now! :-(

Thnx for looking anyway.

Elaine.x

Elaine

Elaine Report 8 May 2013 17:04

please,please,please,please.....help me find Mary Ann Kelly in 1901.....she seems to have disappeared of the face of the earth!

App,she seems to have married Richard Cooper in 1898.....I found her living with him and their children in 1911 census(at least i THINK its her!),but in the 1901 Census,Richard is living with his parents at 59,Warrington Rd.,and down as single!

Incidentally,59,Warrington Rd is the address on the baptism of Richard & Mary Anns' first child,Alice,on 16th Jul 1901!

NOTHING is straightforward in our family!!

I know I have asked for a lot of help,but i DO try to do what i can myself first.

Elaine. :-(

mgnv

mgnv Report 8 May 2013 22:54

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/cemetery.php?opt=cemetery
Surname Forename Age Place of Death Date Year Notes Grave Cremation Religion
Cooper Ann 62 yrs 50 Queen St 02-Nov 1912 P 475 * C of E
Cooper Richard 43 yrs 50 Queen St. 08-Jun 1916 P 405 * C of E
[date is of burial, not d.o.d.]

I think Ann is Richard's mum - see 1881:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQXH-H2V
Warrington Rd is the A49 heading S (to Warrington) - abt 800m from railroad tracks, it becomes Wallgate - the last turn off to the right before going under railroad is Queen St. The A49 is now diverted down Queen St, but it used to follow Wallgate under the tracks, past the station to All Saints C of E, then up Standishgate (now a pedestrian precinct) and onto Wigan Lane (where the new diversion rejoins the old route), past the infirmary, and out to the N.

Rellies keep sending me links to Edwardian pics of central Wigan - the most surprising thing is everyone wore hats - even 10 y old kids had cloth caps on!

Elaine

Elaine Report 9 May 2013 00:30

Very interesting,M.....50,Queen St is the address on my grandma Jane Ellen(Ellen Jane)Kellys marriage cert at her first marriage to Charles Edward Anderson,in 1915......now you tell me Richard Cooper and his mother,Ann,lived at 50,Queen St,at the time of their deaths!

in 1891 census,Mary Ann Kelly(my gt grandma)was living 4,Canal St.,Wigan,with parents,Thomas & Maria Kelly,and her siblings........4,Canal St.,was place of abode on my grandmas baptism

1901 census,cant find Mary Ann ANYWHERE!,but Richard Cooper is living with his parents and siblings at 59,Warrington Rd,..........59,Warrington Rd is place of abode at the bapt of Richard and Mary Anns dau Alice,in Jul.1901

As Christina,here on GR pointed out...in 1911 census,Richard and Mary Ann were living 1,Fairhurst St.,off Gt George St.,Wigan. There with them were daus Nellie(18).,Elizabeth Ann(11).,Alice(9) .,sons John William(7).,Henery(5) and Richards brother,William(26)

This Nellie,being 18 yrs old,makes her b.c1893(the yr my grandma was born)....could this Nellie be Ellen Jane?...seems likely.

on census,it says Mary Ann had 9 children born alive...5 still living(the 3 girls and 2 boys in 1911?)

At least with all the addresses matching baptisms and marriage,I think I am on the right family!

Just need to know where Mary Ann was in 1901 now.....dont know what month census was that year,but dau Alice was b July....so she would have been close to giving birth,surely?