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29 Apr 2013 20:57 |
Incidently, the child born in 1921 (Colin Knubley) died in the same quarter 1921 - so if memories/family stories are correct and they had 1 child that would be the one born in 1915 I would have thought.
Added, this is the child's burial record:
Colin Knubley Birth Year: abt 1921 Age: 2/12 Burial Date: 23 May 1921 Parish: Walton Park Reference Number: 283 WAL/4/2/21
His address was 14 Randoph Street, Liverpool. Burial was subject to a "coroners order" whatever that means, I'm not sure - but may indicate an inquest?
And actually, there is another possible child Freda born Q4/1916 in West Derby, which I think was missed from the 2008 posting. So 2 possible children are Fred & Freda - but without their certificates you wouldn't know their mother's name as I can't see a christening.
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29 Apr 2013 20:51 |
OK, looking back over this, I was going to ask a stupid question like who the He** was Gertrude, then I saw the link to your earlier thread. So, please forgive me if I offend, but just throwing a few thoughts around.
Are the births posted by Shirley 28 April 15:31 those of your f-i-l & siblings? If so, could Alfred have been drafted into WW1 - hence the gap between 1914 & 1921? Have you checked for a military record/pension?
Or, had Eveline already ditched Alfred and moved back to "home territory" in Wiltshire to be near her family? Maybe Norman was not Alfred's son if this is the case (especially if the earlier child for Gertrude was right). Any married woman could name her husband as father of child, without him being there - on some occasions many years after his death!
On your 2008 thread, there were 2 children suggested for Gertrude in 1915 & 1921 - do you know if either of them are possibly the children for her and Alfred & how did you arrive at her name as the possible "other woman"?
Finally, I agree with Pat, they would not have had to have married for Gertrude to have taken his name - anyone can call themselves anything they like, so long as it is not to defraud. But the same would apply to Alfred, he may have died under a completely different name.
Like I say, not trying to offend, just throwing out some thoughts/angles for further investigation.
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Jane
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29 Apr 2013 18:08 |
Thank you everyone for putting a lot of time into this. Some of the info I already had, but some was of help too. The fact is, Alfred 'disappeared' in about 1920, we think he went to the Greater London area, Cricklewood has been mentioned but we have no proof. Norman (his son) was 12 and visited the cemetery with his mother (Alfred's wife) but couldn't remember which cemetery it was. This might be a red herring, as his memory wasn't that great. Norman has since died. We have been to several cemeteries where we think he was buried, but haven't discovered anything. We think he died between 1925 and 1935. Gertrude, we think, died around 1928.
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patchem
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28 Apr 2013 21:35 |
Any chance this is Gertrude's death? She does not have to have married Alfred, just taken his name. Gertrude F Shaw Birth Date: abt 1897 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1964 Age at Death: 67 Registration district: Fylde Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 10c Page: 260
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28 Apr 2013 17:01 |
Hi Jane,
Please go back to what your husband remembers. Is the family posted his relatives? Where and when did he last know of his grandfather's existence and does he remember his grandmother - was she alone or with his grandfather? And like I asked earlier in the thread, who was his parent?
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Astra
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28 Apr 2013 16:55 |
Previous thread from 2008
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_topics/thread/1058376
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patchem
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28 Apr 2013 16:31 |
A tree on ancestry has much information about his family, children, and wife including her death. But not his death. Perhaps get her death certificate for further informant. Do none of your relatives have details for him?
Added: They quote the Salisbury death at age 89 for her.
Ancestry tree owned by JanHolland45.
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Astra
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28 Apr 2013 16:31 |
I think Evelyn died in Salisbury
Civil Registration event: Death
Name: SHAW, Evelyn Blanche Registration district: Salisbury County: Wiltshire Year of registration: 1970 Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Date of birth: 5 September 1881 Volume no: 7C Page no: 1967
and her birth
Births Dec 1881 (>99%) SWAYNE Evelyn Blanche Wilton 5a 203
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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28 Apr 2013 15:31 |
Name: Dorothy A Shaw Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1911 Registration district: Birkenhead Inferred County: Cheshire Volume: 8a Page: 499
Name: Mary E Shaw Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1912 Registration district: Birkenhead Inferred County: Cheshire Volume: 8a Page: 1008
Name: Alice E Shaw Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1913 Registration district: Prescot Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 1341
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Agnes G Shaw Name: Agnes G Shaw Mother's Maiden Name: Swayne Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1914 Registration district: Prescot Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 1416
Name: Norman Shaw Mother's Maiden Surname: Swayne Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1921 Registration district: Salisbury Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume Number: 5a Page Number: 301
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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28 Apr 2013 15:19 |
Evelyn died in London
Name: Evelyn B Shaw Birth Date: abt 1881 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1956 Age at Death: 75 Registration district: Wandsworth Inferred County: London Volume: 5d Page: 745
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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28 Apr 2013 15:17 |
lived with uncle from an early age 1891 England Census about Evelyn B Swayne Name: Evelyn B Swayne Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Relation: Niece Gender: Female Where born: Langford, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Steeple Langford Ecclesiastical parish: Steeple Langford Town: Great Bathampton County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street Address:grt Bathampton Farm
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Wilton Sub-registration district: Wilton ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1622 Folio: 103 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age George F Gay 39 occ farmer Matilda M Gay 43 Evelyn B Swayne 9 Ann Foyle 17 Laura Hartnell 14
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1622; Folio: 103; Page: 16; GSU Roll: 6096732.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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28 Apr 2013 15:15 |
you may need the marriage cert for further info
Name: Alfred Robert Shaw Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1909 Registration district: Amesbury Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume Number: 5a Page Number: 376 spouse Evelyn Blanche Swayne
Name: Evelyn Blanche Swayne Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1881 Registration district: Wilton Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume: 5a Page: 203
1901 England Census about Evelyn Swayne Name: Evelyn Swayne Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882 Relation: Niece Gender: Female Where born: Staple; Langford, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Winterbourne Gunner Ecclesiastical parish: Winterbourne Gunner St Mary County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street Address:Manor Farm
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Amesbury Sub-registration district: Winterbourne ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 33 Piece: 1950 Folio: 47 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age George F Gay 49 occ farmer Matilda Gay 50 Evelyn Swayne 19 Catherine Powell 49 Edith May 22
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1950; Folio: 47; Page: 11.
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patchem
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28 Apr 2013 15:12 |
Only birth showing: Births Sep 1883 Shaw Alfred Robert Northampton 3b 88
Have you got an approximate idea of death date?
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Astra
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28 Apr 2013 15:11 |
Last birth to the couple appears to be in 1921 Salisbury
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Flip
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28 Apr 2013 15:04 |
When and where was your husband's parent born, and what was their name please? Otherwise anything found would be guesswork.
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Astra
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28 Apr 2013 15:01 |
You don't say where he was born. Is this him in 1911
1911 census transcription details for: 38 Haldane Avenue Bhead
National Archive Reference: RG14PN22048 RG78PN1309 RD452 SD2 ED45 SN127 Reg. District: Birkenhead Sub District: Tranmere Parish: Birkenhead Enum. District: 45 Address: 38 Haldane Avenue Bhead County: Cheshire
SHAW, Alfred Robert Head Married M 27 1884 Student Of Theology Kingsthorpe Northamptonshire SHAW, Evelyn Blanche Wife Married F 29 1882 Steeple Langford Wiltshire SHAW, Dorethy Amy Daughter F 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Birkenhead Cheshire
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Jane
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28 Apr 2013 14:55 |
Any information on the above would be great. He was my husbands grandfather and we cannot find out when or where he died.
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