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Matching the Bride and Groom

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

mgnv

mgnv Report 6 May 2013 05:47

Kucinta's find is also available on FS, but with distressingly fewer details - and you need an FMP sub to see the image.

Name: William Llewellyn
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 22 Jun 1887
Event Place: Newport, Holy Trinity, Monmouthshire, Wales
Age: 20
Birth Year (Estimated): 1867
Spouse's Name: Rosina Bryan
GS Film number: 2411549
Digital Folder Number: 004393940
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCT2-Y6G

I haven't looked at any other Welsh marrs, but at least it would resolve who wed whom for some of them via lookups at
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

Although it just covers (I think six of the old) northern counties,
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/
can resolve both church and non-church marrs too. Sometimes the marr ref is to a page #, rather than an entry #, but these can be useful when the GRO pages aren't aligned with the local register's pages. Also, sometimes the local index gives an age for deaths pre-1866, and, at least in Anglesey, they give the mum's maiden surname on pre-1911 births. Not all church, etc msrr rego's, nor all subdistrict B & D regos have been locally indexed, though.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 6 May 2013 00:14

BTW,

You mentioned Thomas Marchant Llewellyn and Sarah Ann (images pmed):


Grooms Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms First Name: Thomas Marchant
Grooms Fathers First Name: Lewis
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 22
Brides Last Name: Osborne
Brides First Name: Sarah Ann
Brides Fathers First Name: David
Brides Fathers Last Name: Osborne
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 23
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Newport, Holy Trinity
Marriage Year: 1883
Marriage Month: Aug
Marriage Day: 13
Page: 80
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

also:

Grooms Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms First Name: Thomas Marchant
Grooms Fathers First Name: Lewis
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 33
Brides Last Name: Powell
Brides First Name: Alice
Brides Fathers First Name: Benjamin
Brides Fathers Last Name: Powell
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 23
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Newport, Holy Trinity
Marriage Year: 1894
Marriage Month: Oct
Marriage Day: 22
Page: 79
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 6 May 2013 00:11

Sorry - no joy!

I'd tried previously to find the marriage image for Thomas and Clara, but it's not coming up on the Parish Records Collection1538-2005 on fmp, as the others I sent you did.

Maybe they didn't marry in church?

EDIT: The 'view' on the record you posted for Clara and Thomas, just links to an image of the printed GRO index , not to an image of the marriage register.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 20:47

Kucinta...from FMP...with the last of my pay to view credits!!! can you find an image??

Civil registration event: Marriage

Name: POVALL, ThomasRegistration district: [?] Newport (Monmouthshire) County: MonmouthshireYear of registration: 1893Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Spouse's last name Not available before 1912Volume no: [?] 11A Page no: [?] 284
MarriageFinder™: [?] Thomas Povall married one of the following people Transcript
UNDERWOOD, Kate
VIEW
MITCHELL, Clara
VIEW

PARRY, George Samuel J
VIEW

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 18:24

Just to say I must be going senile..... ;-)

Entering up the marriage Kucinta mailed me on my spreadsheet and Rosina auto-filled. I have bought the stupid certificate aaaaaaagghhhhhhhhh!!!!!

But thanks anyway everyone for the help particularly the certs for Louis/Leiw and William and their Florence Helenas! :-D

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 5 May 2013 16:35

You mentioned these marriages, didn't know if you had the actual dates or just the GRO refs. I can't find a full record for Clara Mitchell and Thomas Povall, just the GRO ref.

Grooms Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms First Name: William
Grooms Fathers First Name: William
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 23
Brides Last Name: Mitchell
Brides First Name: Florence Helena
Brides Fathers First Name: Hezekiah
Brides Fathers Last Name: Mitchell
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 29
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Basaleg
Marriage Year: 1909
Marriage Month: Jun
Marriage Day: 5
Page: 20
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Grooms Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms First Name: Louis
Grooms Fathers First Name: William
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 27
Brides Last Name: Povall
Brides First Name: Florence Helena Eliza
Brides Fathers First Name: Thomas
Brides Fathers Last Name: Povall
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 20
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Llangattock Juxta Caerleon
Marriage Year: 1916
Marriage Month: Mar
Marriage Day: 29
Page: 220
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 5 May 2013 16:17

At least you were trying to be helpful :-)

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 16:07

Yeah I think that might have been me! When I went down the wrong alley!! And no details because it was my first try and I didn't really know what I was doing

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 5 May 2013 15:47

Thought I might add a post-em to the Free BMD entries in case anyone else has the same quandary about who married who.

EDIT: I've added details of the relevant marriage to each bride and groom on the entries on FreeBMD, though it will take up to 24hrs for them to show up.

However I noticed there was already a post-em against Rosina Hale, wrongly linking her to William Llewellyn (but with no actual details) !!! :-0

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 15:41

Many thanks! Got it. Lewis the blacksmith was my great grandfather. The witnesses thomas marchant llewellyn (another grand uncle) and sarah ann (his wife). And all four from jeddo street! Designed to confuse!

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 5 May 2013 15:25

Thanks, Flip.

As you say, the mistranscription would account for the ancestry tree wrong marriage date.

TBH I think you'd all got to the right conclusion without me .

Just happy to be able to confirm it :-)

Flip

Flip Report 5 May 2013 15:16

Nice one Kucinta, so I guess that's where the ancestry tree got the marriage date of 1887 for the other couple!

At least we don't have to got through the trauma of Jude getting more wills - which took months once before. Sorry Jude, I still think of that saga and dread posting probate records for you. ;-)

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 5 May 2013 14:55

I've found the image for both marriages on FMP, though both have been mistranscribed as 1887.

Will pm you the actual image;

Grooms Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms First Name: William
Grooms Fathers First Name: Lewis
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Llewellyn
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 20
Brides Last Name: Bryan
Brides First Name: Rosina
Brides Fathers First Name: Bobert
Brides Fathers Last Name: Bryan
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 19
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Newport, Holy Trinity
Marriage Year: 1887
Marriage Month: Jun
Marriage Day: 22
Page: 146
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Grooms Last Name: Collins
Grooms First Name: Albert
Grooms Fathers First Name: George
Grooms Fathers Last Name: Collins
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age: 20
Brides Last Name: Hale
Brides First Name: Rosina
Brides Fathers First Name: William
Brides Fathers Last Name: Hale
Brides Parish:
Brides Age: 19
County: Monmouthshire
Place / Parish: Newport, Holy Trinity
Marriage Year: 1887
Marriage Month: Jun
Marriage Day: 27
Page: 146
Record source: Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider: Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

EDIT: It's definitely 1886 on the image itself, which I've sent you by pm. Both couples give their address as Jedds St.

William Llewellin (sic) on register, but signs as Llewellyn, was a 20 yr old grocer, and his father Lewis Llewellyn is described as a blacksmith.

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 12:09

That's what my dad used to call him (he died when my dad was four). I have a cutting from the South Wales Argus in 1996....the caption says "as the frontman, Billy Llewellyn, seen here on the right.......well the guy on the right as you look at the photo is stick thin. The guy on the right as they sat is fat (and he looks a bit Llewellynish)..

:-)

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 5 May 2013 12:00

I love Fat Willy!!

:-D

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 11:57

Yes PP...Rosina is a very popular name in Wales it seems...I had never heard of it until I started this lark and I have six in my tree! :-)

DazedConfused

DazedConfused Report 5 May 2013 11:53

Someone asked what the chances of 2 Rosina's were.

Well in Wales at this time this name seems to have been extremely popular.

I have at least 2 of similar ages in my family.

I also have 2 Florence Fowlers (of four in my tree!) born one year apart (same area as well) and the younger is the aunt of the older one. Very confusing. :-D :-D

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 5 May 2013 11:48

Sorry been out shopping!

Prickles - I like that Collins Hale birth!

I am fairly sure (through "connections") that Rosina Bryan is the correct Rosina. Yes I have all the probates etc....it was a complicated family....

William and Rosina had two sons - William and Louis. William (known as fat Willy) had a dance band called Billy Llewellyn's Dance Band and married Florence Helena Mitchell.

Florence's sister Clara married Thomas Povall and their daughter Florence Helena Eliza Povall married Louis, William's brother!

William took over the Royal Oak on Chepstow Road Newport from his father. It's now a Toby Carvery!

Jude

Flip

Flip Report 5 May 2013 10:24

A tree on Ancestry has Rosina Hale, got married at Holy Trinity, Newport on 27/6/1887? to Albert Collins. There is no document attached for any proof though.
It also has her christening 15/7/1868 at St Paul's, and her death in 1924 but I'm not sure of that death as that Rosina has a middle initial.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 5 May 2013 10:16

Hmmmm....

England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005
about Florence H E Povall
Name: Florence H E Povall
Spouse Name: Louis Llewellyn
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1916
Registration district: Newport Market
Inferred County: Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 299