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Thanks again alviegal - for some reason I assumed you must be in Oz ha ha!

My pen friend in Australia has the same name as me and it was my idea to see if I could find a link between our familes. She also didnt know if she was related to Samuel Swain but I now know (with your help) that she definately is. Im now going to look at , making us distant cousins.

Beat wishes
Cathie Swain :-)

That's wonderful news, I think. Hope your friend is happy to be related to such an infamous man. :-D :-D

All the info I was sent by you very kind people has now enabled me to definately confirm that my pen friend is related to the infamous convict Samuel Swain 1803 - 1870 (as in the book and utube).

Thankyou all very much indeed

Cathie Swain UK

You're welcome Cathie. I wish you luck in your quest. I'm sure you must have this but just in case. They were both listed as innkeepers.



first families 2001 Details First Family Member Details
Descendants

First Family Member Details
Surname: SWAIN
Given Name(s): Samuel

Birth Details
Birth Town: Painswick
Birth County,
Region, Province: Gloucestershire
Birth Country: England
Birth Date: 27/05/1806

Death Details
Death Town: Tamworth
Death State/Territory: NSW
Death Country: Australia
Death Date: 1870

Immigration Details
Air/Port Landed: Sydney
Ship/Plane: Mary
Year Arrived: 1833

Surname: WRIGHT
Given Name(s): Patience

Birth Details
Birth Town: Painswick
Birth County,
Region, Province: Gloucestershire
Birth Country: England
Birth Date: 1/07/1804

Death Details
Death Town: Tamworth
Death State/Territory: NSW
Death Country: Australia
Death Date: 1895

Immigration Details
Air/Port Landed: Sydney
Ship/Plane: John Renwick
Year Arrived: 1838


Descendants


Children
SWAIN NO ISSUE, Elizabeth SWAIN NO ISSUE, James SWAIN NO ISSUE, Joseph
SWAIN NO ISSUE, Francis HASSALL (NEE), Mary Ann 1 SWAIN, George 2
SWAIN, John Samuel 3 SWAIN, Edward 4 SWAIN, Alfred 5


PS It's lovely and sunny here in Aviemore, Scotland as well. Yippee!!

Just making my way through the info very kindly supplied and want to thank you all for the help. I see now many people have sent info and I am grateful to you all.

kind regards
Cathie Swain

Wow thanks for the info especially Cherilyn & alviegal!!
This is great now I have lots of info to be going on. I was particulaly trying to find the names of Jacks parents as I was trying to ascertain if he was a descendant of a English convict Samuel Swain 1806 - 1870 (who there has been a book written about) which is what we were lead to believe. I can now use the family info to check that as I have the names of the children of Samue.

Thankyou very very much for all the time you've spent on this its so helpful!!

Regards from a beautiful sunny day in Yorkshire England. (we dont get many of these!! ha ha!!)
Cathie Swain :-D

If you search at the whitepages online phone directory, there is only 1 Swain listed in Mildura, Victoria. See www.whitepages.com.au

Jack was the youngest son of Francis & Isabella:
1. Leslie W 1891 Tamworth, d. 1893
2. Selby Wilfred 1893 Tamworth, m. Myrtle Gertrude LANGWORTHY 1916, d. 1945 Manilla
3. Arthur Claude 1895 Gunnedah, m. Iris Florence J McKECHNIE 1920, d. 1933 Port Macquarie
4. Irwin Clifford 1896 Gunnedah, m. Sarah E WEST 1922, d. 1971 Tamworth
5. Ellis Victor/Victor Ellis 1898 Gunnedah, m. Clare Frances MORONEY 1930, d. 1933 Randwick
6. Jack 1900 Gunnedah, d. 1947 Tingha

Poor Jack was only 4 when his father died :-(

HIs mum must have been quite something to have raised 5 boys by herself!

Ryerson Index has these, you can request death notice lookups:
SWAIN Clare Frances Death notice
10JUL1979 Death [aged] 75, late of Paddington, formerly of Manilla, NSW
Sydney Morning Herald 11JUL1979
SWAIN Myrtle Gertrude Death notice
11AUG1968 Death at Tamworth
Sydney Morning Herald 12AUG1968

Francis James SWAIN was born in Tamworth in 1868 to George & Harriet nee AVARD (reg 126734), youngest of 7 children. His father George died that same year (and so history was repepating with Francis also losing his dad young).

Isabella Amelia CHAFFEY was also born in Tamworth, in 1865, to Wm Adolphus & Amelia nee CHAD (reg 15422). She was the eldest of 11 children.

The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser, Wednesday 18 August 1852
Marriages.
At Wambrommurra, Dr. Jenkins's station, in the vicinity of the Hanging Rock gold fields, on the 2nd instant, by the Rev. Edward Williams, of Tamworth, George Swain, eldest son of Mr. Samuel Swain, to Harriet, eldest daughter of Mr. Thomas Avaid, Fallbrook.


Thomas AVARD (31) and his wife Elizabeth (27) arrived in NSW in 1838 aboard Westminster; Harriet was most likely with them.

Wm A CHAFFEY arrived aged 16 in 1856 with his brothers Robert (19), Samuel (25) & Octavius (23) aboard 'Robert Small'. Also Samuel's wife Elizabeth. From deaths, parents of the CHAFFEY boys were Joseph & Honor.

Amelia CHAD was born in NSW in 1847 to Thomas & Amelia nee MUNSIE (one of 13 chn) and died in 1923 in Newcastle. Her father Thomas was a convict (arr 1831 on Surrey). The MUNSIE family (John & Nickless) are online.

Sorry way more than you probably wanted but I tend to get a bit carried away..! :-P

The Sydney Morning Herald, Monday 6 June 1938
MRS. I. A. DIMMOCK.
The death of Mrs Isabella Amelia Dimmock, aged 73, occurred at her residence at Manilla. She was the wife of Mr Harry Dimmock of Manilla and the eldest of a family of 11 of whom Mr F. A. Chaffey MLA is the youngest. She is survived by Mr Dlmmock and three sons Messrs S. W. Swain of Manilla; Clifford Swain of Loomberah; and Jack Swain of Tingha.

WWI enlistment:
SWAIN Jack : Service Number - Depot : Place of Birth - Carroll NSW : Place of Enlistment - Tamworth NSW : Next of Kin - (Mother) DEMMOCK I E
WWII enlistment:
SWAIN JACK : Service Number - N451073 : Date of birth - 29 Nov 1899 : Place of birth - CARROLL NSW : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - SWAIN VERA

His birth:
3733/1900 SWAIN JACK / FRANCIS J / ISABELLA A / GUNNEDAH

His father's death:
5985/1904 SWAIN FRANCIS J / GEORGE / HARRIETT / MANILLA

His parents' marriage:
7458/1891 SWAIN FRANCES J / CHAFFEY ISABELLA A / TAMWORTH

His mum's 2nd marriage:
12034/1917 DIMMOCK HENRY S / SWAIN ISABELLA A / NUNDLE

her death:
8635/1938 DIMMOCK ISABELLA AMELIA / WILLIAM ADOLPHUS / AMELIA / MANILLA

Jack died in 1947:
21881/1947 SWAIN JACK / FRANCIS JAMES / ISABELLA AMELIA / TINGHA

His death notice from NLA Trove lists children:

The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 15 August 1947
SWAIN, Jack.-July 24, 1947 (suddenly), at his home, Tingha, beloved husband of Vera and loved father of Jocelyn (Mrs. C. R. Evans, Wee Waa), Meg (Mrs. G. Radcliffe, Blakehurst), and John and David, Tingha, aged 47 years. At rest.

I think this is daughter Meg:
SWAIN PAMELA MARGARET MORROW : Service Number - NF479940 : Date of birth - 27 Oct 1925 : Place of birth - BARRABA NSW : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - SWAIN VERA

Looks like all the kids had the middle gven name Morrow - from marriages:
33668/1942 EVANS CUTHBERT RALPH / SWAIN JOCELYN ANN MORROW / TINGHA
15573/1946 RADCLIFFE GROCE KEY / SWAIN PAMELA MARGARET MORROW / TINGHA
2666/1959 SWAIN JOHN MONOW / OLD VERLEI LAURA / GOULBURN

NSW death:
1616/1978 SWAIN VERA ELLEN ISABELLA / WILLIAM JOHN / VIOLET CATHERINE

Jack and Vera married in 1923 in Barraba, NSW. That her maiden name was Morrow does seem a good match.

Here's a later one. He is a teacher living with Verlei Laura Swain.


Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about John Morrow Swain
Name: John Morrow Swain
Electoral Year: 1980
State: New South Wales
District: Riverina
Subdistrict: Wentworth



Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about David Morrow Swain
Name: David Morrow Swain
Electoral Year: 1980
State: New South Wales
District: Bennelong
Subdistrict: Ryde East


With Irene Veronica.



Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about David Morrow Swain
Name: David Morrow Swain
Electoral Year: 1980
State: New South Wales
District: Barton
Subdistrict: Arncliffe East

Also with Irene Veronica.

There is one other person in NSW on the ER with a 2nd name of Morrow

Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980
Enid Morrow Swain
Gender: Female - home duties
Electoral Year: 1963
State: New South Wales
District: Werriwa
Subdistrict: Lindfield

of 49 Trafalgar Ave
Living with Victor Cyril Swain, manager.

Hope we don't have Swain brothers marrying Morrow sisters!

Possibly John is David's brother as there are very few records with Morrow as a 2nd name - but the Australian specialist may be able to give you more suggestions on how to find records. They may even be able to find the newspaper entry to see what details are on there.

I'm in England as well, and have only picked up sources by reading other posts.

John/Jack? Jack/John? Who knows?

Just had another thought...... could John Morrow Swain be another son of Jack Swain and Vera Morrow? (ie the brother of David Morrow Swain) ???? Rather than John actually being JACK????

Argh!!!!

Wow Thanks Detective.

Over here the name John is often given as Jack so there is a possibility they are the same person. So Im looking for parents of a John or Jack but as the marriage of 'Jack' was 1923 as you say the birth will be early 1900s. Not sure what's available in Australia a here in the UK we can look much earlier.

So near yet so far.

Your help has been Much appreciated :-D

So are Jack and John different people, or is John, Jack's Official name?

Just by googling his name, hoping for an obit we can find


PDF Page 11 of the report
OFFICE BEARERS 2009/2010 - Coomealla Memorial Sporting Club
www.coomeallaclub.com.au/.../Coomealla_Club_Annual_Report_2010.p...?
Sep 30, 2010 – Mr Garry John Harding. Mr Daryl William Wescombe. Mrs Janada Joy Blair. Mr Christopher Francis Casey. Mr John Morrow Swain. Mr Norman

John Morrow Swain, Director
(he resigned on 5 Dec 2010 as per the next year's report)

NSW birth are only available to 1912 so Jack/John's won't be available

Ryerson index assuming Jack and John are the same
http://ryersonindex.net/search.php

SWAIN John Morrow Death notice 11FEB2011 Death 83 at Mildura Private Hospital Sunraysia Daily (Mildura) 12FEB2011
SWAIN John Morrow 11FEB2011 Death 83 Sunraysia Daily
(Mildura) 16FEB2011

You could ask the NSW Archive 'Ask a Librarian' service to look up the entry.

I have just found a site (by accident I think) that shows a marriage of a Jack SWAIN to a Vera ELLEN ISABELLA MORROW.

This fits with the info supplied earlier by Detective, of a David Morrow SWAIN living with a Vera E I Swain (his mother).

So is there anyway of finding who Jacks parents were by any chance?

Thank you very much for all info received so far peeps

Cathie :-)

Thanks for the info everyone!

Detective - yes David Morrow Swain IS the son of Jack. Thanks

I'm trying to ascertain the parents of Jack is possible but will look at the info supplied
Thanks ever so much

Cathie Swain (UK)

Don't worry - we're getting no where fast.
When the Australian experts come on board, they may have better luck