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I am searching for positive information to help me trace when John died.

John Archer was born at Pevensey Sussex. His parents were George Archer and Harriett Fry. On 26 Apr 1873 John married Mary Ann Dickinson at Otley (Yorkshire) Reg Off. On the Marriage Cert John’s ‘Condition’ is described as Widower. I have not yet identified a previous marriage for John.

John and Mary Ann (I am one of their grt grt grandchildren) had 4 children who lived to adulthood.
George A born 20 Feb 1874, at Timble nr Otley
John Dickinson A born 10 Dec 1875, at Walthamstowe, Essex
Mary A (my direct ancestor) born 24 Aug 1877, at Haverah Park, nr Harrogate
Charles A born 22 Apr 1879, at Eastby, nr Skipton
Then on 25 Jan 1881, there was a stillborn, at Eastby

I know that Mary Ann left John in 1889 and returned to live at Timble with their children.

According to the 1891 Census John was married to Sarah A Archer – possibly a false claim so they could live in ‘tied’ accommodation, or bigamously. Living with them were step-children with the surname Digance. I have located that in the 1901 Census the majority of the children were living in Sunderland with their mother Sarah A Digance. As John is not named I presume that in the previous 10 years John and Sarah parted, and she reverted to her previous surname.

When Mary A married in 1898 her father is named as John Archer (on the Marr Cert), but not annotated as ‘Deceased’. When Mary Ann died in 1921 her occupation is described as ‘Widow of John Archer a Ganger on Waterworks’. To date I have not traced when or where John passed away. More likely this was before the 1911 Census as MaryAnn is recorded as a widow.

I have compared all deaths for John Archer in the period 1891-1911. Some I have discounted due to there being a birth recorded in the same district.

There are 3 'favoured' options:

December Qrtr 1898 Cardiff
March Qrtr 1907 Camberwell
June Qrtr 1893 Hendon

Would appreciate if anybody has a John Archer who is one of the above, but not born in Pevensey, so I can eliminate that death from my list of possibilities.

Michael Ellison

Hello Michael, welcome to the boards.

I doubt anyone who has the same John Archer will stumble across your post here - I'd suggest you use the Search All Trees facility to see if anyone else has him and then contact them to see if they can share any info.

Thanks - will try that

Born on 26 Jul 1848

Michael ...............


don't forget that his wife Mary Ann may have described herself as Widow after she left him and moved to Timble, and that children and neighbours may only have known that description of her marital status.


You can only trust a few items of information on a death certificate. These are ..........

date and place of death
cause of death
name, address and occupation of the Informant
name and address of doctor
Name of coroner


Everything else is only what is known to the Informant ....................... and even spouses or children may not know the truth.



So, do not rely on the death certificate only for Mary Ann being a widow.

You say that John was described on the 1873 wedding certificate as a widower.
Have you found him in the 1871 census, and, if so, what was the description there?
Thanks

Just for information

1881 Census Household Record
Household Information
Address
Parish East Halton
District Skipton, Skipton
Administrative County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Householder 1
Name John Archer
Age 32
Estimated Year of Birth 1849
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Navvy
Birth Place Pevensey
Birth County Sussex
Householder 2
Name Mary Ann Archer
Age 29
Estimated Year of Birth 1852
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Snowdon Otley
Birth County Yorkshire
Householder 3
Name John D Archer
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1876
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Walthamstow
Birth County Essex
Householder 4
Name Mary Archer
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1878
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Havarah Park
Birth County Yorkshire
Householder 5
Name Charles Archer
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1880
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Eastby
Birth County Yorkshire
Householder 6
Name John Thompson
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1841
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation Navvy
Birth Place Weedon
Birth County Nottinghamshire
Householder 7
Name John Nutter
Age 47
Estimated Year of Birth 1834
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation Navvy
Birth Place Cononley
Birth County Yorkshire
Householder 8
Name Edmund Blackburn
Age 39
Estimated Year of Birth 1842
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation Navvy
Birth Place Battle
Birth County Sussex
Householder 9
Name Joseph Johnson
Age 33
Estimated Year of Birth 1848
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation Navvy
Birth Place Cattall
Birth County Yorkshire

Can't find him at all in 1871, which may have cast some light re: first marriage.

He's in several trees on Ancestry and no-one seems to have found the 1871 either, no death recorded for him.

Could this be John

1871 Census Household Record
Household Information
Address Pits, Little
Parish Wolstanton
District Wolstanton, Tunstall
Administrative County Staffordshire
Householder 1
Name Isaac Lilly
Age 42
Estimated Year of Birth 1829
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation
Birth Place Northamptonshire
Birth County Northamptonshire
Householder 2
Name Harriett Lilly
Age 41
Estimated Year of Birth 1830
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Northamptonshire
Birth County Northamptonshire
Householder 3
Name Sarah Lilly
Age 15
Estimated Year of Birth 1856
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Northamptonshire
Birth County Northamptonshire
Householder 4
Name Thomas Lilly
Age 14
Estimated Year of Birth 1857
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan
Householder 5
Name William Lilly
Age 8
Estimated Year of Birth 1863
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Glamorgan
Birth County Glamorgan
Householder 6
Name Edmund Lilly
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1866
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Somerset
Birth County Somerset
Householder 7
Name Walter Lampitt
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1831
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation
Birth Place Warwickshire
Birth County Warwickshire
Householder 8
Name John Archer
Age 23
Estimated Year of Birth 1848
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation
Birth Place Sussex
Birth County Sussex

Sorry to put anther one in the mix.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about John Archer Name: John Archer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1907
Age at Death: 60
Registration district: Guildford
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 79

Until 1969, there was no DOB on a death cert, so, unless there is anything else about him which would set him apart from others of the same name born in the same year, your chances of pinpointing his death must be limited.....at best

Guildford entry............

Assuming that the person registering the death gave accurate info, he was born too early

The occupation of the one posted for 1871 was Horse Driver..birthplace Pevensey,

Thanks everybody for your comments and advice.

There are other ideas I have considered.

Did John emigrate to Australia or America, maybe move to Scotland in search of work?

More obscure was John convicted of Bigamy and served a custodial sentence?

Until I find the answer to my dilemma John is only grt grt grandparent that I have been unable to identify his death.

Have you considered purchasing the certs for the deaths you haven't eliminated?

Being jailed wouldn't alter the death info

What was his occupation on the 1873 marriage cert?

Have you followed the advice about looking in 'search all trees'?

And did you see the 1871 census info for him?

Michael

On looking at the image for the 1871 census posted by FredK i would say this is your man in 1871.

His name is mistranscribed and so is his Birth place,Correction forwarded to Ancestry.

It does not state he was a widow in that census :-)

Sue :-)

The name is correctly transcribed on FMP............and the 'status' column is actually not filled-in.

We need confirmation from Michael that he has seen the info provided by Fredk, and about the man's occ when he married

1891 for LOCATION


Person: ARCHER, John Address: Harris End, Nether Wyersdale, Scorton


ARCHER, John Head Married M 42 1849 Foreman On Public Works
Pevensey, Sussex VIEW
ARCHER, Sarah A Wife Married F 42 1849
Battle, Sussex VIEW
DIGANCE, Sarah A Stepdaughter Single F 15 1876
Barrow in Furness, Lancashire VIEW
DIGANCE, Elizabeth Stepdaughter F 14 1877
Alverstone, Lancashire VIEW
DIGANCE, Mary Stepdaughter F 13 1878 Scholar
Alverstone, Lancashire VIEW
DIGANCE, Richard Stepson M 9 1882 Scholar
Newhaven, Sussex VIEW
DIGANCE, Joseph Stepson M 7 1884 Scholar
Hull, Yorkshire VIEW
BENNETT, Thomas Lodger Single M 71 1820 General Labourer Excavator
Newton, Warwickshire VIEW
HOLDEN, George Lodger Single M 69 1822 General Labourer Excavator
New Bolingbroke, Lincolnshire VIEW
FLETCHER, Thomas Lodger Single M 38 1853 General Labourer Excavator
Hull, Yorkshire VIEW
HOATH, John Lodger Single M 31 1860 General Labourer Excavator
Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW
WATERS, Elijah Lodger Single M 65 1826 General Labourer Excavator
Farmborough, Somersetshire VIEW
EVANES, William Lodger Single M 40 1851 General Labourer Excavator
?, Monmouthshire VIEW
BENNETT, William Lodger Single M 40 1851 General Labourer Excavator
Launceston, Cornwall VIEW
BROWNING, Charles Lodger Single M 29 1862 General Labourer Excavator
Deptford, Kent VIEW

Occupation in 1881............NAVVY

Thanks for everbody's efforts.

Fredk & Susan - I've looked at the 1871 Census and agree that it highly likely to be my ancestor John, although the writting is not clear I can read 'Archer' and 'Pevensey'.

Reggie - John's occupation on the Marriage Cert is 'Excavator'. There are 7 Matches for John with other trees. Unfortunately I have previous contact with 6 of them through other family members and they all copied the info I have about John! Which leaves one person whom I have contacted.

Apologies I did not mention I had located John in 1881 & 1891.

I suspect Reggie is correct when he wrote 'my chances ... must be limited'

I will apply for the 3 likely Death Certs and hope one of provides the answer

Michael