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Forster/Cohen marriage.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

wisechild

wisechild Report 10 May 2013 13:49

This has me completely stumped.
John Marks Forster (anglicised version of unknown Polish name) married Margaret/Maggie/Millie Cohen sometime between the 1891 census & the birth of their 1st child in Leeds in 1894.
Have them both on the 1891 census. He a tailor in Leeds, she at home with her parents Benjamin & Yetta in Caistor, Gt Grimsby.
They were both born in Russia,Poland, he abt 1864 she about 1868.No clue as to where.
Have checked various Jewish ancestry sites without success. The marriage should be on the GRO indexes, but no sign.
A Maggie Coen married in Caistor in 1890 but to a different husband & "my" Maggie is with her parents in 1891.
Have suggested that they may never have married, but their granddaughter says that´s unlikely as John Marks was a pillar of the schul in Leeds.
Have them & their children in Leeds in 1901 & 1911.He died in Leeds 1935 & she in Wetherby in 1946. No sign of wills.
Please can anyone spot a marriage for these two?

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 10 May 2013 13:59

What's the name of that child born in 1894 please

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 10 May 2013 14:04

just for ref while looking

Name: John Marks Forster
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Russia Poland
Civil parish: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 13 Grange Crescent Leeds
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Tailor (Manager)
Registration district: Leeds
Registration District Number: 500
Sub-registration district: North Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Piece: 26964
Household Members:
Name Age
John Marks Forster 48
Millie Forster 43
Florrie Forster 16
Ray Forster 15
Gabriel Forster 13
Percy Forster 11
Leslie Forster 7

wisechild

wisechild Report 10 May 2013 14:07

Children were Florence 1894
Ray (Rachel) Lily 1895
Gabriel Reuben 1897
Percy 1899
Leslie 1903

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 10 May 2013 14:10

?????????????

Solomon Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1870 Hull, Yorkshire, England
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Annie M Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1866 Poland
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Maggie Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1868 Poland
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Lewis Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1872 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Abraham Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1875 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Leah Cohen
England and Wales Census, 1881
birth: 1878 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
census: 1881 Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
parents:Benjamin Cohen, Yetta Cohen

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 10 May 2013 14:11

take it this is him in 1891


1891 England Census about Mark Forster
Name: Mark Forster
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Poland
Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: West Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3698
Folio: 41
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Pickersgill 66
Mark Forster 26
Arthur Blockey 23
Mary A Waddington 22


wisechild

wisechild Report 10 May 2013 14:20

Yes RR.
Pretty sure that´s him.
His brother Max Samuel is also on the 1891 census with his wife Matilda Ludski & their children GB 5
RFE 3
CM 9months.
Same birth details & occ. B 1865.
Also a possible much younger brother Maurice Forster b 1876 unmarried on the 1901 census in Leeds.
Extra bit of info.
John Marks & Maggie/Millie became naturalised in 1906.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 10 May 2013 14:54

The only thing I can think of is to approach the Synagogue/s? and see where the records are kept, you know the likely years. List here so maybe see which are still there?


http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk/marrcov.php?region=LS#ap

Max married at

Jews Synagogue Belgrave Street (The Great Synagogue)

wisechild

wisechild Report 10 May 2013 15:10

Thanks RR. Will try that link.
There are several Jewish ancestry sites for Leeds, most of which we´ve looked at, but there´s a chance they could have married in Caistor. (Or anywhere else for that matter).
Family rumour apparently has it that John Marks had left a family behind in Poland.
Who knows?

Reggie

Reggie Report 10 May 2013 15:48

Perhaps they simply didn't marry......................the most unlikely people have been found - when checks are made - to have 'lived in sin'....................

wisechild

wisechild Report 11 May 2013 07:09

I´ve come to the same conclusion Reggie, but his granddaughter is horrified by the idea as the family were practising Jews although they are not now.
The only thing I haven´t tried is to look for a marriage much later than we think.
I have a g uncle who had 7 kids with his "wife" but they didn´t marry until the youngest was about 10. No apparent reason as they were both widowed at the beginning of the relationship. Have death certs for both partners.
There´s no accounting for folks
;-) ;-)

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 07:51

Didn't know if you had this, though no help in finding the marriage.

Maggie Forster
Probate Date: 24 Nov 1948
Death Date: 28 Aug 1946
Death Place: Leeds, England
Registry: London, England

Maggie,otherwise Millie, of 5 Westley-view Chapel Allerton,Leeds. Widow. Probate to Ray Lily Forster, spinster, £1855 5s 3d

wisechild

wisechild Report 11 May 2013 12:39

Hi Flip.
Thanks for that. Hadn´t seen the will although had looked for one for John Marks without success.
Hadn´t realised Auntie Ray was a spinster & the address may come in useful.
Many thanks for looking.
Marion

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 12:49

I think she was still at the same address in 1950 - it's on the passenger record going to and back from Argentina.

Ray Lily Forster
Gender: Female
Age: 53
Birth Date: abt 1897
Departure Date: 6 Jan 1950
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Ship Name: Argentina Star
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Argentina Star' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Blue Star Line
Master: E R Pearce

She returned 4/6/1950 - though no details of why she went.

I can't see a probate for John either, but interestingly on the nat.archives site his naturalisation spells his middle name Marcks.

wisechild

wisechild Report 11 May 2013 14:13

She had probably been to visit her brother Percy & his wife in Buenas Aires. Percy was an international correspondant in Argentina & quite well known.
We had wondered whether the Polish name of John Marks could have been Marckowitch. That doesn´t explain where the Forster came from, but there are a number of apparently unrelated Marks/ Marckowitches in Leeds.
Think they must have come to England around 1885

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 14:43

I've found some eastern Europe immigrants coming in via Antwerp in the past (on familysearch) - but it's difficult to trace them with no original name. Many naturalisation records state the original name as well as the anglisised name, but his doesn't appear to - unless it is in the detail rather than the title, but it can only be viewed at Nat Archives, not available on-line.

Strangely, Max dropped the Max and was just Samuel by 1911 and claimed to be born in London.

wisechild

wisechild Report 11 May 2013 14:52

Sally, the granddaughter of John & Maggie/Millie reckons there are lots of family secrets to be uncovered.
She is in her late 70s now, but remembers her grandparents & their siblings well.
She says nothing would surprise her.(Except to find that her grandparents weren´t married, mainly because he was a pillar of the Jewish community in Leeds). Mind you, as we all know, there´s nothing unusual about that scenario. We´ve all got ém somewhere along the line..
Will suggest she gets someone to view the naturalisation papers. We´re in Spain, but she does have family in England still.

Andrew

Andrew Report 11 May 2013 15:03

Hasn't this been looked at before?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1322044

Andy

wisechild

wisechild Report 11 May 2013 15:11

Crikey, so it has.
Apologies everyone. Have no recollection whatever of putting it up before, possibly because I went off at a tangent & looked at Percy.
However we´re still no nearer to finding the original couple.
Thanks everyone for trying & humble apologies.
Blame old age & senility.

Flip

Flip Report 11 May 2013 15:59

Marion, that is no excuse! :-D It comes to us all, I can't remember what I did yesterday at times.

Like everyone else, I can't see a marriage for them and doubt they actually married. But then again, it could be registered somewhere under their original names as I'm guessing Maggie Cohen was not her original name either.

Her family must have arrived in England around 1879 (her born Poland, brother Solomon in Hull), and her parents state naturalized on the census - so why did she need to be naturalized in 1906? Although I can't see her naturalization in 1906, I'm just accepting you have found it.