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Emma Davis - Birmingham 1861

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David Report 16 May 2013 19:02

Emma Davis born 1837 had a child Frederick Abraham Davis, born 13 May 1862. They were living at Back 36 HOLLIDAY STREET, BIRMINGHAM .
I can't find Emma Davis using Ancestry as I can't search by street.
Can anyone tell me who was at that address in 1861 CENSUS or which district the address is in?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 16 May 2013 19:11

this is nos 36 but she was living at the back of no 36

1861 Census transcription details for: 36, Holliday Street, Birmingham
National Archive Reference:
RG number RG09
Piece: 2138
Folio: 21
Page: 3
Reg. District: Birmingham
Sub District: 2 St Thomas
Parish: Birmingham
Enum. District: 24
Ecclesiastical District: St Thomas
City/Municipal Borough: Birmingham
Address: 36, Holliday Street, Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
LONG, Charles Head Married M 38 1823 Wheelwright
Tamworth, Staffordshire
LONG, Mary Wife Married F 33 1828
Harleston, Staffordshire
FERNIHOUGH, Thomas Lodger Unmarried M 24 1837 Wheelwright
Cheadle, Staffordshire
ALLCHURCH, Edwin Lodger Unmarried M 21 1840 Labourer
Bewdley, Worcestershire

back of 36 isnt listed


brummiejan Report 16 May 2013 19:19

It's obviously a back-to-back - several homes are listed at no. 36, but not obvious which is the one she was in. I am guessing there is no phrase like '2 house ct/court' on the cert?


David Report 16 May 2013 20:44

Hello Shirley and Jan
Thanks for your help it is much appreciated.
On the certificate the writing is very clear and in both the place of birth and informant address it is Back 36 Holliday Street.


brummiejan Report 17 May 2013 09:52

You might not be able to solve this one unfortunately. The only other thing I can think of is if someone with FMP sub can check 1851 census for this exact address. If the same family are there 1861 that would indicate she was with them Unlikely though as people moved around very frequently! (I speak from bitter experience).
Can I ask if you are looking at this just out of interest, or is it to trace Emma's background?


Maddie Report 17 May 2013 11:25

checked 1851 on fmp but street does not come up


Maddie Report 17 May 2013 11:29

is this
is this her 1871

DAVIS, Emma Wife F 34 1837 Warwickshire (widow)
DAVIS, Harry Edward Son M 11 1860 Warwickshire VIEW
DAVIS, Frederick Abraham Son M 8 1863 Warwickshire VIEW
DAVIS, Emma Elizabeth Daughter F 7 1864 Warwickshire VIEW
DAVIS, Walter William Son M 4 1867 Warwickshire VIEW
DYKE, Sarah Boarder F 23 1848 Warwickshire VIEW

Piece: 3156

Folio: 146

Page: 19

Registration District: Aston

Civil Parish: Aston

Municipal Borough:

Address: Whitehouse Street, Aston

County: Warwickshire


Maddie Report 17 May 2013 11:46

frederick's birth certifcate will name the father

Name: DAVIS, Frederick Abraham

Registration district: [?] Birmingham

County: Warwickshire

Year of registration: 1862

Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun

Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3

Volume no:[?]6D

Page no:[?]58


David Report 17 May 2013 15:58

Hi Maddie and Jan

Your help in finding Emma is greatly appreciated.

I am tracing the Davis family for genealogical reasons.

I have Emma and Harry Edward her son on the census pages below.
For the birth of her son Frederick there is no father named and on her wedding cert in 1874 her father is William Davis, a mason

Emma Davis 34, Harry Edward Davis 11, Frederick Abraham 8, Emma Elizabeth 7, Walter William 4 also below in St, John Phillips 23 @ 91 Whitehouse St, Aston, B'ham 1871

Harry Davis 21 (b.1860 B'ham Tin plate worker) Minnie 19 Emma (Davis) 41, Sarah A Phillips (Emma's dau) 9,Frederick A 19, Emma E 17, Walter W 14 @ 8 Carlyle Terrace Aston Rd Aston 1881

Emma Phillips 52, John Phillips 42, Sarah Ann 19 @ 248 Clifton Road, Aston Manor 1891

Emma Phillips 64, John Phillips 54, Sarah Ann 28, Harry E Davis 9, Elizabeth Davis 8 @ 248 Clifton Road, Aston Manor 1901

Emma seems to change her age quite a lot in the early days.

I'm stuck on where Emma and Harry were in 1861 and have tried all sorts of permutations of Davis..........Davies, Dawes, Daves, Dews but drawn a blank

Thanks again


brummiejan Report 17 May 2013 16:08

There is an Ancestry tree which has Harry (Henry) with father Henry Redford Davis, iron spoon maker, and a half-sibling of Frederick and the others. I assume this has come from a marriage cert.
I too can find no sign of any of them 1861. I suppose it's possible that Emma was living with someone and was using his name, though I cannot see Harry either.
How annoying!!


David Report 17 May 2013 17:17

Hi Jan
The Ancestry tree (Henry) is mine and the info came from a marriage cert as you suggested. I can't find anyone called Henry Redford Davis though. I think she had a vivid imagination!
It does seem odd that Emma Davis would have 4 children with no named father and then marry John Phillips. What is strange is that on the 1871 census John Phillips is living in the same Street as Emma but he would have been only 13 when Emma's first child was born.
I have requested the birth cert of her son Harry E Davis b.1860 with the hope there is more info on this one than his brother's Frederick A Davis
Thanks again for your help


brummiejan Report 17 May 2013 21:15

I think that's a good idea David - if only because there doesn't seem to be anything else to do!
Do let us know what it says, very intrigued by this one.


brummiejan Report 17 May 2013 21:47

Just in passing - might be irrelevant, but puttingt this as William is a stonemason. Right sort of area, who knows!

1841 England Census
Name: William Davis
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: St Thomas
Hundred: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire

Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration District: St Thomas

Ann Hobson 20
John Mahony 20
William Davis 40


David Report 19 May 2013 14:05

Hi Jan

Thanks again for your help and I will check out the William Davis you have found.

Are you based in B'ham? I studied at Aston Uni and all my wife's family on the Davis and Moore side are from B'ham. Do you know if there are parich registers and MI's for churches in Aston?

Best wishes


David Report 19 May 2013 14:06

Hi Jan

Thanks again for your help and I will check out the William Davis you have found.

Are you based in B'ham? I studied at Aston Uni and all my wife's family on the Davis and Moore side are from B'ham. Do you know if there are parish registers and MI's for churches in Aston?

Best wishes


brummiejan Report 19 May 2013 14:11

Hi David.
I sure am! How did you guess??
There are parish registers for all areas which currently fall under Birmingham, including Aston. Not sure what MI's are?
Have you tried online resources, namely Freereg/Familysearch?
However! Brum is having a new Central Library built, and as a result no archives are available until September.
If you want a lookup after this let me know.


wisechild Report 19 May 2013 14:43

Hi David.
Yes, B´ham library has MIs for many Birmingham churches, but as Brummiejan says, you can´t access them until the new library opens.
I am a Davis from Birmingham, but unfortunately not your branch.
You could consider joining the B´ham & Midland Society for Genealogy & Heraldry if you want help sooner than September. It sounds posh, but is basically a Family History Society. There is a booklet full of info & contacts issued 4 times a year. It costs about 20gbp to join (may have gone up, it´s a while since I was a member), but you can find the details if you google.


David Report 19 May 2013 17:03

Thanks, I'll look up the FHS Soc.


David Report 23 May 2013 15:30

I have received the birth certificate for Harry Edward Davis born 7 March 1860, the son of Emma Davis. Again like the certificate for his brother born two years earlier there is no father named.
However, I have a different address for 1860 of 10 Wharf Street, Birmingham, which was in the St Thomas area. Perhaps they were still there in 1861. Could anyone check this out please?

Emma Davis's birth must be circa 1834 not as I originally thought 1837. If she had a child and she was younger than 16 would the certificate state that she was a minor?



brummiejan Report 25 May 2013 11:32


David. just in case you aren't aware, if you click on 'edit' on your original posting you can edit the title.
A suggestion - edit it to read something like 'new FMP address search please'. This will hopefully alert people with FMP sub to have a look at the thread.

Good luck!


PS the age of a minor was under 21 remember. I think the age of consent was 13 or 14.