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Lost from the record

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MickB

MickB Report 18 May 2013 00:05

John and Sarah Mackelworth (nee Notley) 1828 and 1833 approx. respectively were head and wife in 1861 and 1871 census records. In 1881 a John and Sarah Mackelworth were shown as head and wife but they were much younger than they should have been (22 years in the case of John and 17 years in the case of Sarah).

They are obviously different people. Fair enough. But I and others can find no trace of what happened to the original John and Sarah (death records being the obvious starting place). Can anyone shine the light please?

mick

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 18 May 2013 00:24

The John Mackelworth in the 1881 census would appear to be the son of the John and Sarah born 1828 and 1833. There are 3 brothers living with him in 1881 who all appear in the family on the 1871 census.

I can't find the parents anywhere.

Kath. x

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 18 May 2013 01:23

yeah the one in 1881 is definately their son, but his siblings are wrongly down as his children. Which says to me the parents must of died and he took them in.

I think you should look for a death of John and Sarah between 1871 and 1881

CelticShiv

CelticShiv Report 18 May 2013 01:57

It is weird, they do seem to completely vanish. I have done various wildcard searches and cant find them anywhere.

patchem

patchem Report 18 May 2013 09:46

Is this the marriage of one of his children?
Mary Ann Mackelworth
Spouse Name: Charles Richard Gibbs
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Aug 1874
Parish: South Hackney St John of Jerusalem
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: John Mackelworth
Spouse Father Name: Charles Gibbs
Register Type: Parish Register

Susan

Susan Report 18 May 2013 09:59

For Ref, is this there marraige.

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about John Mackelworth Name: John Mackelworth
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Sarah Hutchiston Notley
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 9 Mar 1851
Parish: Stepney St Dunstan and All Saints
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Robert Mackelworth
Register Type: Parish Register



There is this record ,don't know if it is yours.

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
about John Mackelworth Name: John Mackelworth
Year: 1897
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets
Ward or Division/Constituency: Bethnal Green South West

Living at no 1 Jane St...with a John Chamberlain

Flip

Flip Report 18 May 2013 10:06

It looks like it Pat, there is also this marriage - no mention of father being deceased, but he is also a cigar maker.

Robert Mackelworth
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Age: 23
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Harrell
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Aug 1883
Parish: Bethnal Green St Thomas
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: John Mackelworth
Spouse Father Name: George Harrell
Register Type: Parish Register

patchem

patchem Report 18 May 2013 10:13

Just posting the 1871 census
John Mackelworth Age: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Mackelworth
Gender: Male Where born: Whitechapel Civil Parish: Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England Registration District: Hackney Sub-registration District: South Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 299 Piece: 331 Folio: 97 Page Number: 57
John Mackelworth 42
Sarah Mackelworth 38
Sarah Mackelworth 18
Mary Ann Mackelworth 16
Waller Mackelworth 14
Robert Mackelworth 11
Willm Mackelworth 8
Jessie Mackelworth 6
Elizabeth Mackelworth 4
Charles Mackelworth 1
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 331; Folio: 97; Page: 57; GSU roll: 818902.

Flip

Flip Report 18 May 2013 10:20

I think the ER posted by Susan is the son, he was living in Jane Street in 1891.

Susan

Susan Report 18 May 2013 10:28

I wonder if sarah remarried ,spelling a bit dif :-|

..England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Sarah Elizabeth Mackelroth Name: Sarah Elizabeth Mackelroth
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1876
Registration District: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 753
Records on Page: Name
Harriet Lucans Adams
Harriet Lucena Adams
Sarah Elizabeth Mackelroth
Robert Michael
Joseph Wooding


patchem

patchem Report 18 May 2013 10:31

Is this his birth?
John Mackelrath
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Jun 1828 (1825?)
Father's Name: Robert Mackelrath
Mother's Name: Sarah Mackelrath
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George in the East
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 May 2013 10:38

Please see Mick's thread on General for the background so no one is duplicating... a lot of records have been PMd also , baptisms etc.

It is John and Sarah 'senior' who appear to have disappeared after 1871

I have searched freebmd ( deaths) for years 1871-1881 with just first names and Bethnal green

LMA records
passenger lists
Ellis Island
Bethnal Green workhouse
and census of course

with all variants (so far)of the name and no sign)...that's not to say I am sure they are not there...just that they are not obvious :-)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1324861

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 May 2013 10:38

This infant presumably fits into the family somewhere. Daughter of the younger John & Sarah?:

Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
Mackelworth Sarah Ann Bethnal Green 1c 287

Deaths Dec 1879 (>99%)
Mackelworth Sarah A 0 Bethnal Green 1c 200

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 May 2013 10:43

Found variants of name, so far

Mackleworth
Mackelworth
Mackelwrouth
Macclesworth
Mackelroth

(edit is worth also noting when searching, that all the generations tended to use the same first names...so lots of Johns, Sarahs Charles, Roberts )

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 May 2013 10:56

Perhaps someone will check the US census after 1871 just in case they emigrated? Odd that they left their children but you never know.

Susan

Susan Report 18 May 2013 11:23

I think this is Johns birth as it says father is a tailor ,that is also on John and Sarahs Marriage cert :-)
Note different spelling of surname

First Name: JOHN Last Name: MACKELRATH
Collections from: United Kingdom Country: England
Category: Vital Records (Birth, Marriage, Death) Record collection: Births & baptisms Record set: Docklands Ancestors
County: London Year: 1828
Mother's Given Name: Sarah
Father's First Name: Robert
Month: June Birth Year: 1825
Birth Date: 14/08/1825
Address: Church Lane
Parish: St George In The East
Place: STEPNEY Notes: Year: 1828
Church Address: Cannon Street Road
Location Of Church: Stepney
Father Occupation: Tailor
Transcriber Note: Entry Number: 2002 Day: 15
Source Reference: X097/279

Appol's Patchem ;-)Wanted to post the extra detail just incase it helps any

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 May 2013 11:48

Susan, that's correct, image sent to Mick last night. Robert's parent's listed on Robert's baptism as Peter and Martha.

Mick has also looked at a Mundia tree, which is useful for who's who...but none of the trees on there or Ancestry have details of where Sarah and John (senior) disappeared to...though there is a claim on Ancestry tre that he disappeared in the US....unfortunately it claims he disappeared aft 1864...but as we know they were alive and kicking on the 1871. :-D

Flip

Flip Report 18 May 2013 11:51

One of the ancestry trees also has Sarah in Bethnel Green in 1881, but no link to the actual census - I can't see her though.

Susan

Susan Report 18 May 2013 12:06



I have looked everywhere for them that I know .

Will try looking US then .

Getting a stiff drink first though :-|

Sue :-)

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 May 2013 12:33

Lol Susan, I think that sounds a good idea :-)