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'Davies' & Possible Remarriages = brick wall?!

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

KazB

KazB Report 8 Jun 2013 10:00

This may seem straightforward to expert Genealogists but having difficulty getting my head around it, so am looking for some confirmation that I'm on the right track.

My Paternal Gt, Gt Grandmother was Jane Samuel (nee Davies) who married William David Samuel in 1880. They are in Census Records 1881-1911 (Aberdare,Wales) with Jane listed as b. abt. 1856 Llanelli, Carmarthen. Her Marriage Certificate in 1880 states Father as Lewis Davies, Coal Miner

Problem:
- Census Records 1871 & 1861 (Aberdare, Wales) show a Jane Davies (b. abt. 1856 Llanelli, Carmarthen living with Lewis Davies, his wife Elizabeth and other children.
- Jane and her Mother Elizabeth are shown as being born Llanelli, Carmarthen. However the father Lewis Davies was born in Aberdare!

Q. So do I assume that Lewis is not the biological father and that Elizabeth is the biological mother but was widowed and got remarried to Lewis?

Q. The other children in the census records were born in Aberdare and some are older than Jane so do I assume that Lewis was also widowed when he married Elizabeth?

Q. If the answers to the above are yes how do I find out Elizabeth previous married name and her maiden name? Jane was born in Carmarthen in 1856 but was in Aberdare with her mother and step-father by 1861. I presume they married in Aberdare as Lewis' older children were born there. Am I correct in thinking that I'll have look for copies of marriages certificate for Lewis Davies and an Elizabeth (something) in Aberdare between 1856-1861 and pray that I find a certificate with both parties widowed?

Any advice or confirmation that I'm on the right track would be appreciated.

Karen

Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

Gins

Gins Report 8 Jun 2013 10:09

A childs birth certificate will give you her maiden name

Have you checked this out?


Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BOWEN William Llanelly 11a 791
DAVIES Lewis Llanelly 11a 791 <<<<<<<<<
THOMAS Elizabeth Llanelly 11a 791 <<<<<<<<<
THOMAS Margaret Llanelly 11a 791

Catherine

Catherine Report 8 Jun 2013 10:24

for ref:-

Name: Lewis Davies
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Davies
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Household Schedule Number: 52
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4069
Folio: 68
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Davies 40
Elizabeth Davies 34
Margaret Davies 14
Morgan Davies 11
Jane Davies 5
Mary Davies 1
John Davies 24
Benjamen John 22
Morgan William 18

Catherine

Catherine Report 8 Jun 2013 10:27

Just wondering if this is Lewis in 1851 with children Margaret and Morgan?:-



1851 Wales Census about Lewis David
Name: Lewis David
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine David
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Aberdare
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandaff and Llwydcoed
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 2e
Piece: 2460
Folio: 166
Page Number: 22
Household Schedule Number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis David 29
Catherine David 26
Margaret David 3
Morgan David 1
Jane Lewis 25

Catherine

Catherine Report 8 Jun 2013 10:35

Possible marriage for 1851 couple:-

Marriages Dec 1846 (>99%)
xxxxx Davies Lewis Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Edwards David Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Edwards John Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Gunstone Grecian Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
xxxxx Jones Catherine Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Jones William Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Phillips Margaret Merthyr Tydfil 26 622
Richards Mary Merthyr Tydfil 26 622

..................................

Lots of possible deaths for Catherine Davies between 1852 and 1856!

Catherine

Catherine Report 8 Jun 2013 10:43

There is an Elizabeth Thomas born 1827 Llannelli but living in Aberdare in 1851 census:-

1851 Wales Census about Elizabeth Thomas
Name: Elizabeth Thomas
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Aberdare
Ecclesiastical parish: Llandaff and Llwydcoed
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 2e
Piece: 2460
Folio: 163
Page Number: 17
Household Schedule Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Lewis 59
Joan Lewis 58
Richard Lewis 19
Lewis Lewis 17
Elizabeth Thomas 24
Mary Bowen 15

..................so could possibly be the Elizabeth Thomas from the marriage record, but you are probably going to need to buy some certificates to be 100% sure all this is correct.

...................................

It looks to me as though Lewis married Catherine, and they had two children Margaret and Morgan. Catherine died between 1851 and 1856 and Lewis married Margaret in 1856. You will need to buy a couple of birth certificates to find maiden names, which will help find or confirm marriages.

KazB

KazB Report 8 Jun 2013 14:18

Cattherine & Gin
Thank you so much for the help, and such quick responses too.

The entry for Lewis 'David' in 1851 does seem plausible as the names and birthdates do in the main correlate with later census entries. The Lwydcoed area again matches later census records.

Census rec's show that Lewis and Elizabeth had additional children after they married. One was Rowland Davies b. abt. 1866 Aberdare. As it's one of the more unusual names and not many appearing in BMD's around that date I'm going to try to trace a birth certificate for Rowland with parents Lewis and Elizabeth - this will hopefully reveal a previous surname for Elizabeth. Let's hope it's Thomas!
Regards
Karen

Karen

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 8 Jun 2013 14:49

Marriages (Find My Past)

Groom's Forenames:Lewis (Miner) (Bachelor)
Groom's Surname:Davies
Groom's Age:Full
Marriage Year:1846
Marriage Month:Oct
Marriage Day:31
Event Type:Marriage
Page:191
Place / Parish:Aberdare
County:Glamorganshire
Bride's Forenames:Catherine (Spinster)
Bride's surname:Jones
Bride's Age:20
Groom's Father's Forenames:Morgan (Miner)
Groom's Father's Surname:Dafield
Bride's Father's Forenames:Edward (Miner)
Bride's Father's Surname:Jones
Record source:Glamorgan marriages transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Grooms Last Name:Davies
Grooms First Name:Lewis (Miner) (Widower)
Grooms Fathers First Name:Morgan (Miner)
Grooms Fathers Last Name:Davies
Grooms Parish:
Grooms Age:Full
Brides Last Name:Thomas
Brides First Name:Elizabeth (Spinster)
Brides Fathers First Name:Rowland (Engineer)
Brides Fathers Last Name:Thomas
Brides Parish:
Brides Age:Full
County:Carmarthenshire
Place / Parish:Dafen
Marriage Year:1856
Marriage Month:Apr
Marriage Day:20

Chris :)

Baptism
County Carmarthenshire
Place Llanelly
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 10 Feb 1853
Forename Jane
Sex F
FatherForename Lewis
MotherForename Catherine
FatherSurname DAVIES

(above if her, from below link)

http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl


(same as above, Find My Past)

Forenames:Jane
Surname:Davies
Baptism Year:1853
Baptism Month:Feb
Baptism Day:10
Place:Llanelli, St Paul
County:Carmarthenshire
Birth Year:-
Birth Month:-
Birth Day:-
Fathers Forenames:Lewis (Blacksmith)
Mothers Forenames:Catherine
Record source:Carmarthen baptisms - Transcripts
Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru
(address, Ann Street)

(just adding, not much knowledge Wales!)

safc

safc Report 8 Jun 2013 15:59

Name: Rowland Davies
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 5
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Gregson, Glamorganshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-District: Aberdare
Parish: Aberdare
County: Glamorganshire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Self Lewis M Davies M 49 Llandraw, Glamorganshire
Wife Elizabeth Davies F 44 Carmarthenshire
Daughter Jane Davies F 15 Carmarthenshire
Daughter Mary Davies F 10 Llandraw, Glamorganshire
Daughter Lizy Davies F 9 Llandraw, Glamorganshire
Son Rowland Davies M 5 Gregson, Glamorganshire xxxx
Son David Davies M 2 Gregson, Glamorganshire

safc

safc Report 8 Jun 2013 16:06

Lewis M Davies, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Lewis M Davies
Age (Original): 59
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1822
Birthplace: Wales
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Underground Foreman
Address: 7 Windsor St
Event Place: Aberdare, Glamorganshire, Wales
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1342281
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 5320 / 36
Page Number: 27
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Lewis M Davies M 59 Wales
Wife Elizabeth Davies F 54 Wales
Daughter Mary Davies F 20 Wales
Daughter Lizzie Davies F 19 Wales
Son Rowland Davies M 15 Wales
Son David Davies M 12 Wales

safc

safc Report 8 Jun 2013 16:11

Rowland Davies in household of Jane Davies, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Rowland Davies
Age (Original): 15
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1866
Birthplace: Wales
Relationship to Head of Household: Step Son
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Farmers Step Son
Address: Llwynihirian
Event Place: Nevern (Pembroke), Cardiganshire, Wales
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1342307
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 5426 / 18
Page Number: 8
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Jane Davies F 40 Wales
Daughter Elizabeth Davies F 4 Wales
Son William Davies M 2 Wales
Step Daughter Anne Davies F 18 Wales
Step Daughter Margaret Davies F 16 Wales
Step Son Rowland Davies M 15 Wales
Step Daughter Mary Davies F 13 Wales

KazB

KazB Report 8 Jun 2013 20:33

safc - thank you.

Thank you I already had the 1871 and 1881 information for them at 7 Windsor Street. I believe these to be the correct family.

Chris Ho;)
Thank you also, I will check out those marriage and birth records - somehow I don't believe I'll find a quick simple answer.

Cheers
Karen

Catherine

Catherine Report 9 Jun 2013 16:55

Just in case:-

As Chris seems to have found Lewis' two marriages and father is noted as Morgan, then wondering if this Lewis in 1841?

1841 Wales Census about Lewis Davies
Name: Lewis Davies
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Aberdare
Hundred: Miskin
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View Image
Occupation: Miner
Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration District: Aberdare
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1420
Book: 5
Folio: 21
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Name
Morgan Davies 55
Jane Davies 50
Daniel Davies 20
Lewis Davies 15
Morgan Davies 15
Jane Davies 10
David Davies 11
Sarah Davies 8
John Davies 5
.................................................

KazB

KazB Report 10 Jun 2013 07:43

Thank you all, I don't need any more help on this at the moment.

KazB

KazB Report 10 Jun 2013 20:26

Sorry everyone. There is no 'marked as answered' above box above my original message for me to tick so therefore I cannot close it down!