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To all the marvelous people who kindly assisted me in my quest to find the wife of my GGGrandfather, John Griffiths. Have found the birth certificates of two of his children, Joseph and Elizabeth. Both have their mother as Mary Ann Griffiths (formerly Lloyd). I have since come across a very good potential marriage details, between one John Griffiths and a Mary Ann Lloyd one year before the birth of the first child, Robert Lloyd Griffiths.

This ends one my main stumbling blocks in my family research and completes one more link further on.

All of you were simply tremendous with your support and you all gave me great advice, pointing me in the right direction.

Once again...thank you and I will definitely be posting here again asking for more advice.

Best regards to you all.
Mike Griffiths, Dundas, NSW Australia

The DOB for Robert Lloyd was given by my father, who has since passed away, and unfortunately all the documents are in Perth, West Aust. whereas I am in Sydney 4000km away. The DOB is accurate. Alas, I did not have time to obtain the rest of his details.
Mike

When I did a quick search, that birth was the only one that appeared for Denbigh. I was going for the simple option first.
Could apply for birth certificate specifying father's name?

Is the date of birth for Robert off a grave - just wondered?

Problem is Pat, if you look for Griffiths there are 4 born Denbighshire Q4/69-Q1/70 - and none of them have middle names.

The only registration district where there is Joseph, Ann(e) and William births registered looks to be Wrexham - always assuming they didn't move around. (There is a Joseph reg 1864 Ruthin but if Michaels dob for Robert is right, I don't think it can be him)

This one's birth certificate?
Births Mar 1870
Griffith William Ruthin 11b 365

The only census Mary A appears is 1871, so I don't think that would confirm her name to be Mary Ann. However, I know this will not get you her maiden name (nor will Elizabeth's birth certificate as I don't think she had the same mother as Robert) but this looks like her death:

Mary Ann Griffiths
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1873
Age at Death: 29
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 260

Added: If you don't have Robert's birth certificate how do you know his exact dob please?

Robert Lloyd Griffiths (my great grandfather) was married to Elizabeth Ann Lythgoe and she died 31Dec1901. Robert then married Elizabeth Wharton Harrison 3 years later.

On Robert's marriage certificate, it states his father's name as John Griffiths. What I cannot find is Robert's mothers name/maiden name. All that is stated in any of the Census returns, is that her first name was Mary Ann (Griffiths). Only the 1911 Census show the change to Elizabeth.....Robert Lloyd's new wife.

Robert Griffiths
Age in 1911: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Flint, Wales
Civil Parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Edinburgh St Liverpool
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Gas Stoker
Registration District: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration District: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 22489
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Griffiths 40
Elizebeth Griffiths 42
John Griffiths 22
Elizebeth Griffiths 16
Eliza Griffiths 6
James Hery Hanison 23 (stepson)

Looks like his first wife died, and this is his re-marriage:

Robert Griffiths (widower, gas stoker)
Birth Year: abt 1864
Age: 39
Marriage Date: 11 Jan 1903
Parish: Everton, St Peter
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Wharton Harrison
Father's Name: John Griffiths (dec, labourer)
Spouse Father's Name: James Harrison
Reference Number: 283 PTR/3/9

Both of 14 Arkwright St. Wondered why there was a stepson on the 1911 census, it would be Elizabeth Harrison's child.

If the mother is not Mary Ann Lloyd, then there will not be a marriage between Lloyd and Francis.

I will try and obtain Elizabeth Griffiths' (B 27Jan1876) birth certificate and keep all updated.

Mike Griffiths

The 1871 census was taken on 2 April, and William Griffiths was 15 months old. So born about January 1870/December 1869..

The problem with the 1871 is Jane Francis. She must be Mary Anne's sister but I can't find a marriage for a Jane Lloyd to a person with the surname Francis.

Could be the christening of one of the children, father labourer address 85 Gordon st:

Elizabeth Griffiths
Birth Date: 27 Jan 1876
Baptism Date: 11 Dec 1877
Parish: Everton, Christ Church
Father's Name: John Griffiths
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Griffiths
Reference Number: 283 CST/2/3

?
1871 England Census
John Griffiths Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary A Griffiths
Gender: Male Where born: Denbigh, Wales
Civil Parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration District: Liverpool Sub-registration District: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 42 Household Schedule Number: 95
Piece: 3762 Folio: 106 Page Number: 15
John Griffiths 26
Mary A Griffiths 26
Robert Griffiths 8
Joseph Griffiths 6
Ann Griffiths 3
William Griffiths 1 Year, 3 Months Denbigh
Jane Francis 24 sister-in-law married Flintshire
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3762; Folio: 106; Page: 15; GSU roll: 841880.

This must be the marriage you found

Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%)
Cartwright Thomas Holywell 11b 409
Davies Maria Holywell 11b 409
Griffiths John Holywell 11b 409
LLOYD Mary Anne Holywell 11b 409

If this is the family, then could easily be a step-mother here;
1881 England Census
Robert Griffiths Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Griffiths
Mother's Name: Mary A. Griffiths
Gender: Male Where born: Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Everton County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 115 Elias St Cellar
Occupation: Labourer Builder
Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 35 Piece: 3660 Folio: 78 Page Number: 26
John Griffiths 44 Flintshire Fireman Gas works
Mary A. Griffiths 33 Flintshire
Robert Griffiths 17 Flintshire
Joseph Griffiths 15 Denbigh
Anne Griffiths 13 Denbigh
Elizabeth Griffiths 5 Liverpool
Thomas Griffiths 3 Liverpool
William Griffiths Liverpool
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 3660; Folio: 78; Page: 26; GSU roll: 1341877.

Have you attempted to get the birth certificates of any of his siblings?

EDIT: changed for the FMP version

1881 census transcription details for: 115, Elias St Cellar, Everton


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 3660
Folio: 78
Page: 26
Reg. District: West Derby
Sub District: Everton
Parish: Everton
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 115, Elias St Cellar, Everton
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GRIFFITHS, John Head Married M 44 1837 Fireman Gasworks
Flintshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Mary A Wife Married F 33 1848
Flintshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Robert Son Single M 17 1864 Labourer Builder
Flintshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Joseph Son Single M 15 1866 Errand Boy
Denbighshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Anne Daughter Single F 13 1868 Scholar
Denbighshire, Wales
GRIFFITHS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar
Liverpool, Lancashire
GRIFFITHS, Thomas Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar
Liverpool, Lancashire
GRIFFITHS, William Son Single M 0 1881
Liverpool, Lancashire

Is this their marriage?

Robert Griffiths (engine driver)
Birth Year: abt 1864
Age: 22
Marriage Date: 8 Mar 1886
Parish: Everton, Christ Church
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Ann Lythgoe
Father's Name: John Griffiths (labourer)
Spouse Father's Name: Johnathan Lythgoe (shopkeeper)
Reference Number: 283 CST/3/2

His address 2 Boyd st, hers 53 Wyat st. Witnesses Edward Roberts & Mary Ellen Schofield Lithgoe

Presumably this marriage
Marriages Mar 1886
GRIFFITHS Robert W. Derby 8b 477
LYTHGOE Elizabeth Ann W.Derby 8b 477
so, for reference, is this them:
1901 England Census
Robert Griffiths Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Elizth Griffiths
Gender: Male Where born: Flintshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Everton Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration District: West Derby Sub-registration District: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Household Schedule Number: 95 Piece: 3475
Folio: 12 Page Number: 16
Robert Griffiths 37
Elizth Griffiths 36
John Griffiths 11
Elizth Griffiths 6
Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3475; Folio: 12; Page: 16.