Find Ancestors

Top tip - using the Genes Reunited community

Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

  • The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
  • You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
  • And it's not all serious business. The boards are often a place to relax and be entertained by all kinds of subjects.
  • The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

Quick Search

Single word search

New Scottish Census

New Scottish census records

Do you have Scottish ancestors?

Perhaps you do and you just didn't know! Search our brand new Scottish census records today and discover if you have Scottish roots.

Search Scottish Census

Icons

  • New posts
  • No new posts
  • Thread closed
  • Stickied, new posts
  • Stickied, no new posts

Birth of Margaret JENKINS

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Victor

Victor Report 8 Jul 2013 17:28

I am struggling to find the dates of birth of Margaret JENKINS and her parents.

Scottish records suggest that Margaret married Charles DUTTON at the Free Church, St George, City of Edinburgh on 13-07-1883. However, the marriage certificate suggests that Margaret was born around 1861 to James JENKINS and Catherine (nee JONES). Moreover, census records for 1891 and 1901 (Canongate, Edinburgh) suggest that she was born around 1862-4 in either England or Wales!

Unfortunately, I have found only one James and Catherine Jenkins record (i.e. in the 1881 Census for Upper Llanvrechva, Monmouthshire) - no mention being made of a daughter Margaret. The given ages suggest that this James would have been a very young man if he was indeed the father of Margaret.

I would be most grateful for any advice or help in solving this conundrum.

Kind regards
Victor

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 18:39

Going by her age at death, she was born 1864-5:

1908 DUTTON MARGARET JENKINS F 43 ST GILES EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/04 0617

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 18:41

for reference, here's the 1881 census you mention.
If this is the correct family, James would have been 18 or 19 at Margaret's birth - young but not too young. Catherine is 10 years older.


1881 Wales Census about Catherine Jenkins
Name: Catherine Jenkins
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Jenkins
Gender: Female
Where born: Newport, Shropshire, England

Civil Parish: Upper Llanvrechva
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Street Address: Warwick Terrace No 9
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image

Registration District: Pontypool
Sub-registration District: Llangibby
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5255
Folio: 31
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
James Jenkins 35
Catherine Jenkins 45
Fanny Jenkins 12
Sarah A. Jenkins 10
Henry Jenkins 8
Thos. Jenkins 6
Henry Piddock 32

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 8 Jul 2013 18:43

What is the occupation of James Jenkins on the marriage cert ?

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 18:46

Here's the same family in 1871, though Catherine's called Caroline.
James is a railway porter in 1871, and a railway guard in 1881:


1871 England Census about James Jenkins
Name: James Jenkins
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline Jenkins
Gender: Male
Where born: Worthing, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Coppenhall Monks
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Crewe
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration District: Nantwich
Sub-registration District: Wybunbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Household Schedule Number: 17
Piece: 3710
Folio: 56
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
James Jenkins 27
Caroline Jenkins 37
Fanny Jenkins 2
Sarah A Jenkins 9 Months
Frederick Shellard 20
Henry Ditchfield 19

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 18:47

On Margaret's marriage cert, James is a farm labourer, so presumably not the correct family in 1871 & 1881.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 18:52

On the other hand, Charles Dutton is a policeman at marriage, but a musician in 1891 census!

Victor

Victor Report 8 Jul 2013 18:59

Thank you, Argyllgran. I wasn't sure of Margaret's Death record, because her marriage certificate gives her name simply as 'Margaret JENKINS'. I have been unable to find Census records for Margaret and Charles Dutton anywhere in the UK after 1901, and do not know whether the couple stayed in Scotland beyond the 1901 Census. Several of her children moved to England.

Thank you for your interest
Kind regards
Victor

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 19:04

I can't see any marriage between a James Jenkins and a Catherine Jones anywhere in Scotland/England/Wales between 1850 and 1866.

Victor

Victor Report 8 Jul 2013 19:17

Thank you again, Argyllgran. I found the same records, but was unsure about the change in given name of Catherine to Caroline in 1971. The similarity of the two records is rather convincing, however. Nevertheless, the marriage certificate of 1883 gives the occupation of James JENKINS as "Farm Labourer'.

Kind Regards
Victor

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Jul 2013 19:28

This is Charles's death. He's the widower of Margaret Jenkins, and was a musician and army pensioner;

1929 DUTTON CHARLES M 81 COLINTON EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/14 0499

Like you, I can't find him anywhere in 1911.

[EDIT: His father was Charles Dutton (deceased) and his mother Mary Dutton, ms Field (deceased).
His death was on 6th Dec, from senility and cardiac failure]

Victor

Victor Report 8 Jul 2013 19:44

Brilliant, Argyllgran! I knew Charles was a Musician and that he had connections to the Army, but I didn't know that he died in 1929 in Edinburgh as a widower.

Many thanks for your considerable help.

Kind regards
Victor

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 9 Jul 2013 01:43

A bit more:

Re Margaret Dutton's death in 1908, as posted above:
Her death cert says Charles was a shop porter - maybe he had to have another job if being a musician didn't bring in much money??
Her parents are named as James Jenkins, deceased, farm labourer (that's OK), and Sarah Jenkins (maiden surname Jenkins).
So, what about Catherine Jones??

Victor

Victor Report 9 Jul 2013 16:44

Wow, Argyllgran! You have been very busy! Thank you so much.

I have a copy of the 13th July1883 marriage certificate for Charles DUTTON (bachelor; Police Constable) and Margaret JENKINS (spinster) (St George, City of Edinburgh, - after publication according to the Forms of the Free Church) derived from www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.; entry 270. At the time of marriage the usual residence of both people was given as 26 Lady Lawson Street, Edinburgh.

In this marriage record the father of Charles DUTTON (i.e the groom) was given as Charles DUTTON (Engine Driver; Deceased). His mother was given as Mary Ann Dutton; MS FIELD (Deceased). (I have traced this older couple to St Giles, London).

This marriage record also gives the father of Margaret JENKINS as James JENKINS (Farm Labourer). Her mother was given as Catherine Jenkins; MS JONES.

(My friend informs me that his DUTTON grandfather was indeed a Musician, and was associated with the Army (you mentioned his Army Pension, Argyllgran). He also thinks that his Margaret JENKINS grandmother was probably born in Wales).

I also have Scotlandpeople records of the Births of three sons of Charles DUTTON (Musician) and Margaret Dutton (MS JENKINS) in Edinburgh:

The first-born, James Charles DUTTON, was born on 27th October 1884 at 14 Stanley Place, London Road, Edinburgh, when his father was described as a 'Police Constable'. But by the birth of the fourth-born son, (another Charles DUTTON !) on 13th July 1891 at St Mary Street, Canongate, Edinburgh, his father was described as a 'Musician'. It seems that Charles DUTTON changed his occupation during the 1880s. All Birth records confirm the marriage of Charles DUTTON and Margaret nee JENKINS on 13th July 1883, and the 1891 Census for St Mary Street, Canongate, Midlothian, confirms Charles DUTTON (Musician) living with Margaret and three children.

I am now wondering whether James JENKINS (Farm Labourer) moved to Scotland from Wales with his young daughter Margaret (and perhaps his wife Catherine nee JONES), and whether (following the death of Catherine), James JENKINS married a lady named Sarah nee JENKINS?

What do you think? If so it might be possible to trace the birthplace of Margaret nee JENKINS from that of James JENKINS (Farm Labourer).

Many thanks for your interest and help.

Kind regards
VICTOR

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 9 Jul 2013 18:22

Seems like a reasonable hypothesis, Victor.
Unfortunately, I can't find any likely marriage between James Jenkins (or Jenkin) and either Catherine or Sarah, in either Scotland or England/Wales.

There is this one, but I haven't researched further to see which woman James Jenkins married:
Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%)
Evans Ann Abergavenny 26 47
Jenkins Catherine Abergavenny 26 47
Jenkins James Abergavenny 26 47

Lee Maria Abergavenny 26 47
Parry Thomas Abergavenny 26 47
Roberts Mary Abergavenny 26 47
Vaughan John Abergavenny 26 47
Williams Lewis Abergavenny 26 47