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Ethel Leonora Thompson (b) 1903 City of Birmingham

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

John

John Report 26 Aug 2013 17:44

Hi All, Whilst researching my Gran Leonora Agnes Thompson (b) Stourport 1883. I have opened up the 1911 census and found her mother Fanny Maria Thompson (b) 1857 Stourport. with her on the census is a child Ethel Leonora Thomson (b) 1903 city of Birmingham the relationship has been altered a couple of times to from Grandaughter? Neice. I am sure I can remember an aunty Ethel in the early 50s. I am so intrigued, by this time my Gran was married, was this her child?. Any help from any Thompsons who may have a link would make an oldie really happy
Thankx John :-)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Aug 2013 17:51

For our ref:(What a mess on the image! Lots of scoring out.)


1911 England Census about Fanny Maria Tompson
Name: Fanny Maria Tompson
[Fanny Maria Thompson]
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Mother-in-law
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stourport, Worcestershire
Civil Parish: Balsall Heath
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 95 Vincent St, Balsall Heath, Birmingham
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration District: Kings Norton
Registration District Number: 383
Sub-registration District: Balsall Heath
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household Schedule Number: 115
Piece: 17898
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Palmer 48
Ada Maomi Palmer 27
Fanny Maria Tompson 53
Alfred Edward Tompson 26 - brother-in-law - single
William Irving Tompson 22 - brother-in-law - single
Ethel Leonard Tompson 8 - niece (Scored out: grand-daughter of Mrs Tompson)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 26 Aug 2013 18:00

Buy her birth cert to see parents' details, John.

Tompson (no "h") seems to be the correct spelling, judging by Ethel's records as well as the 1911 census:

Births Jun 1902 (>99%)
TOMPSON Ethel Leonora King's N. 6c 441

Marriages Dec 1922 (>99%)
FRANCIS Harold G Tompson Kings Norton 6d 319
Tompson Ethel L Francis King's N. 6d 319


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Ethel Leonora Francis
Name: Ethel Leonora Francis
Birth Date: 19 May 1902
Date of Registration: Dec 1983
Age at Death: 81
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 32
Page: 1619

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 27 Aug 2013 01:25

There are two or three people who have an Ethel Tompson born Birmingham c1900-1902 on Genes trees, including someone with the surname Francis (see the marriage Argyllgran posted above).

Have you tried contacting any of them just to see if it's your girl, and if they know her parentage?

Dea

Dea Report 27 Aug 2013 08:27

Looks like she was the grand-daughter of Fanny Maria Tompson.

This would make her the child of one of Fanny Maria's children and also, if it were a niece to Mr. Palmer, then a child of one of Ada's siblings - either a brother or an unmarried sister.

The birth cert, of course though is the only way to sort this out for certain.

Dea x

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Aug 2013 09:20

In case it's relevant:

Marriages Sep 1910 (>99%)
Palmer Joseph King's N. 6c 717
Tompson Ada N King's N. 6c 717

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 27 Aug 2013 09:23

Births Jun 1883 (>99%)
Tompson Ada Naomi Droitwich 6c 384


1901 England Census about Ada M Thompson
Name: Ada M Thompson
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Fanny M Thompson
Gender: Female
Where born: Hartlebury, Worcestershire, England

Civil Parish: Balsall Heath
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: Kings Norton
Sub-registration District: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 53
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 30
Piece: 2810
Folio: 29
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Fanny M Thompson 43
Leonora A Thompson 18
Ada M Thompson 17
Alfred E Thompson 16
Harole W Thompson 14

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 27 Aug 2013 13:04

Welcome to the Community Boards John. :-)







As John is a new poster, I'll send a friendly message on how to return to his thread. :-)

John

John Report 27 Aug 2013 20:30

Many thanks to the researchers who have taken the time and trouble to help me, In trying to put a name to my Aunty Ethel who I can remember as a child, It is my gut feeling that she was my Grans (Leonora Agnes Thompson) child but by whom I don't yet know Gran was married? in the 1911 census although I have never found evidence of this!! to Edward William Catliff (b) 1863 :-)

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 27 Aug 2013 23:18

Perhaps Edward William Catliff was still married to another, so they just lived over the brush as it were?

Marriages Mar 1893
Catliff Edward William St. Giles
Chandler Rose St. Giles 1b 684
Dash Edmund John St. Giles 1b 684
Tuck Alice Emma St. Giles 1b 684

Possibly not him, as wrong area?

EDIT: on the other hand, Edward did come from London...

1911

Address: 26 Baker St Wolverhampton County: Staffordshire

CATLIFF, Edward Head Married M 44 1867 Bricklayer London City
CATLIFF, Agnes Wife Married 3 years F 29 1882 French Polisher Stourport Worcs

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 27 Aug 2013 23:32

Edward seems to have married Alice Emma Tuck in the 1893 marriage I posted.

In 1901 he's mistranscribed Calliff, and a medical student, rather different from a bricklayer!

Census 1901:

Name: Edward Calliff
[Edward Catliff]
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England
Civil Parish: Preston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Amos J Lindsey 41
Martha Lindsey 43
Florence M Lindsey 16
Ethel R Lindsey 11
Edward Calliff 37 boarder c1864 London, medical student
Alice Calliff 33 Boarder c1868 London
Gladys Calliff 12 boarder c1889 Prees, Shropshire, England



In 1911 Alice is claiming to be a widow, but I can't find a death for Her Edward William...

Address: 105 Hook Road Epsom County: Surrey


CATLIFFE, Alice Head Widow F 39 1872 Private Means London Finsbury Park
BARNARD, Charles Uncle Single M 68 1843 Private Means: Surrey Epsom
CATLIFFE, Gladys Daughter Single F 20 1891 Salop Prees
CATLIFFE, Roland Son Single M 16 1895 School London Finchley
CATLIFFE, Marie Daughter F 13 1898 School Sussex Brighton
CATLIFFE, Beryl Daughter F 9 1902 Sussex Brighton
CATLIFFE, Robert Son M 8 1903 Sussex Brighton

Gladys Catliff/Catliff seems to have been born Tuck:

Name: Gladys Emma M Tuck
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1888
Registration District: Wem
Inferred County: Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 731

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 27 Aug 2013 23:38

The occupations in 1901 and 1911 are so different, I wondered if it was the same Edward William Catliff.

Birth and death seem to tie up though.

Name: Edward William Catliff
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1863
Registration District: Clerkenwell
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 602

Name: Edward W Catliff
Birth Date: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Dec 1941
Age at Death: 79
Registration District: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 508

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 27 Aug 2013 23:47

Hmmm

Edward William was a naughty boy - he is cited as correspondent in the divorce petition against Emma Alice Tuck nee Johnson by her husband Harry:

Name: Alice Emma Tuck<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Spouse Name: Harry Tuck
Spouse Gender: Male
Petition Year: 1891
Co-Respondent 1: Edward William Catliff<<<<<<<<<<<
Type of Record: Husband's petition for divorce
Divorce Court File Number: 14769

Interestingly enough, there is a petition for judicial separation from Edward Catliff, by his wife Isabella Stuart Lucy Catliff, who are the parents of one Edward William Catliff mentioned in the petition.

Name: Edward Catliff
Gender: Male
Spouse Name: Isabella Stuart Lucy Catliff
Spouse Gender: Female
Petition Year: 1864
Type of Record: Wife's petition
Divorce Court File Number: C151

Isabella's maiden name turns out to be Tuck. Was she, and therefore Edward William any relation to Harry Tuck?

Marriages Dec 1861
ARMBRUSTER Charles London City 1c 225
Catliff Edward London City 1c 225 <<<<
Silz Elise London City 1c 225
Tuck Isabella Stuart Lucy London City 1c 225<<<<

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Aug 2013 12:03

Not only naughty, but prolific!

According to a PM of thanks from John, Edward had 11 children.

More than that, it seems, if Ethel was his.

John

John Report 28 Aug 2013 19:49

Again many thanks to the researchers, My story would really make Gary lineker`s look like chicken feed. Kucintra wow you have really looked into things G/father Edward William is that same person medical student/ bricklayer he also had an affair with Harry Tuck`s wife, After the Divorce he married her and Glayds changed her name to Catliff They then had a flock of children. sometime between 1901/1911 there was a court case and I think they separated and maybe he paid her off!!. I have seen the headlines in the newspaper but cant really afford to take out membership. Harry Tuck`s father William H Tuck married G/Gfather Edwards sister Mary (City of London) G/Grandfather Edward who Married Isabella Stuart Lucy Tuck, had Edward William then went off to have children in Calcutta, 6 children later she died in childbirth, he waited 3 months then remarried Clara Louisa Carr they had children in India also, you will see Clara as a widow but I have never found a death yet Its interesting to note that after 1901 some of the Catliff family had (E) added I have B/Cert of 1 who later added an E when he married he also said his father Edward William was a doctor Deceased in 1935 but he died in 1941 :-0

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Aug 2013 20:41

Found this, will see if I can send you the article transcribed below:

TERRIBLE CRUELTY TO CHILDREN.
...which Edward Catliff and Alice Catliff were summoned for neglecting their five children, aged from eight years to three months. The National Society's inspector described a three-year-old boy as being an imbecile, old and wizened, and having more the appearance of a monkey than a human being. Both defendants were fined £10 and costs.


Cheltenham Chronicle
South West, England
18/07/1903


Re some of the Catliffs adding an 'e', the 'widowed' Alice Catliff formerly Tuck nee Johnson filled out and signed the 1911 entry for herself and assorted children, and she used the spelling 'Catliffe', and signed accordingly.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Aug 2013 21:24

Can this be Clara Louisa's death??

Deaths Sep 1911 (>99%)
CATLIFF Clara L 65 Epsom 2a 6

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Aug 2013 21:30


1901 England Census about Claro L Catliiff
Name: Claro L Catliiff
[Clara L Catliff]
[Clara L Catliiff]
Age: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Sutton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Sutton
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: Epsom
Sub-registration District: Carshalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 204
Piece: 580
Folio: 52
Page Number: 41
Household Members:
Name Age
Claro L Catliiff 55
Charles H Catliiff 27 - born Calcutta
Frank Catliiff 25
Arthur A Catliiff 24
Rose Drinkwater 46
Alice Smith 25

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 28 Aug 2013 21:32

Yes, as she was living in Epsom/Sutton in 1911.

No sign of Edward though and Clara had been claiming to be a widow since the 1881 census or before.

1911

Reg. District: Epsom
Sub District: Carshalton
Parish: Sutton
Enum. District: 9
Address: Roseneath Sherwood Park Road Sutton
County: Surrey

CATLIFF, Clare Luise Head Widow F 65 1846 Private Means London Marylebone
MASS, Amy Elizabeth Visitor Single F 30 1881 London Bermondsey
SHAW, Margaret Servant Single F 28 1883 Co South Casseckinenors Ireland

EDIT: Oops! Crossed with your 1901 census posting.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 28 Aug 2013 21:33

Have you discounted this for Edward's death, John?
(EDIT: Ah, I see already posted by Kucinta, 27th Aug, 23:38.)

Deaths Dec 1941 (>99%)
Catliff Edward W 79 Birmingham 6d 508

(ANOTHER EDIT: Thanks, Kucinta - below - you're quite right, it's his father's death we need.)