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Rose McGiff - b abt 1878 Notting Hill, London

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

George Clive

George Clive Report 27 Aug 2013 16:14

Hi, The only record I can find for Rose McGiff is in the 1891 England & Wales Census, age 13yrs, when she is living in East Ham, Essex with her parents William and Emily McGiff and her brother Alfred McGiff who was my wife's Great Grandfather. It indicates Rose was born about 1878 in Notting Hill, London. I have not been able to find any BMD or other records nor subsequent census for her (NB: Just to avoid possible confusion or any waste of time her brother Alfred - i.e Alfred William McGiff - married ROSE Lilian Lightbody, so there are later records inc a probate for his wife of course as Rose Mcgiff/Rose L McGiff as his wife/widow which will not of course be relevant for Alfred's sister of same name) Seems strange that there is no obvious birth/baptism, death or marriage recorded for Rose, the sister of Alfred, even though I've searched various alternative possible name spellings too. Her parents married in Stepney 1866, but then lived worked and died in West Ham/East Ham Area, so a Notting Hill birth for Rose also seems odd. Can anyone help find any other records for Rose please? Would be most grateful for any assistance or advice.
Regards, George

greyghost

greyghost Report 27 Aug 2013 16:19

For reference only
1891 census transcription details for: 92, Priory Road, East Ham

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 1340
Folio: 102
Page: 18
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: East Ham
Parish: East Ham
Enum. District: 13
Ecclesiastical District: St Stephens
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 92, Priory Road, East Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MCGIFF, William Head Married M 54 1837 Shipping Clerk East Ham, Essex
MCGIFF, Emily Wife Married F 48 1843 Leytonstone, Essex
MCGIFF, Alfred W Son Single M 22 1869 Shipping Clerk West Ham, Essex
MCGIFF, Rose Daughter Single F 13 1878 Scholar Notting Hill, London

greyghost

greyghost Report 27 Aug 2013 16:22

Not with parents 1881.
1881 census transcription details for: 18, Hoy St, West Ham

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 1715
Folio: 48
Page: 41
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: West Ham
Parish: West Ham
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 18, Hoy St, West Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MC GIFF, William Head Married M 42 1839 Dock Labourer West Ham, Essex
MC GIFF, Emily Wife Married F 38 1843 Leytonstone, Essex
MC GIFF, Alfred Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar West Ham, Essex
PAXTON, James Boarder Single M 40 1841 Dock Labourer London, Middlesex
DEVERIL, John Boarder Widower M 43 1838 Dock Labourer Woolwich, Kent
REAY, John Boarder Widower M 42 1839 Dock Labourer Newcastle, Northumberland

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Aug 2013 16:22

Wonder if she wasnt their natural child .she isn't with them on the 1881 census



1871 census transcription details for: Upton Lane Ham Lodge, West Ham

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 1627
Folio: 76
Page: 26
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: West Ham
Parish: West Ham
Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Upton Lane Ham Lodge, West Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MCGIFF, William Head M 32 1839 Essex
MCGIFF, Emily Wife F 28 1843 Essex
MCGIFF, Alfred Son M 2 1869 Essex

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Aug 2013 16:29

Who is this then


1911 census transcription details for: 704 Barking Road Plaistow E

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN9445 RG78PN507B RD188 SD3 ED35 SN38
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: Plaistow
Parish: West Ham
Enum. District: 35
Address: 704 Barking Road Plaistow E
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MCGIFF, Alfred William Head Married M 42 1869 Draper Credit West Ham Essex
MCGIFF, Annie Wife Married
7 years F 49 1862 St Luke City of London
MCGIFF, Annie Mary Daughter Single F 18 1893 Clerk Clothing East Ham Essex
MCGIFF, Kathleen Rosina Daughter Single F 17 1894 Credit Draper Assistant East Ham Essex


Was he married before ?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Aug 2013 16:33

Name: Alfred William McGiff
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1891
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 191
Records on Page:
Name
Catherine Sarah Andrews
William George Gibbins
Margaret Holland
Alfred William McGiff




Name: Alfred William McGiff
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1904
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 259
Records on Page:
Name
Annie Dennis---------------
Ada Louisa Fordyke
Alfred William McGiff
Ernest Fell Onley

Wife Annie on the 1911 census

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Aug 2013 16:35

He married his housekeeper


1901 census transcription details for: 92, Priory Road, East Ham

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1603
Folio: 14
Page: 20
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: East Ham
Parish: East Ham
Enum. District: 50
Ecclesiastical District: St Alban Upton Park
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 92, Priory Road, East Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MCGIFF, Alfred W Head Married M 32 1869 Shipping Clerk
East Ham, Essex
MCGIFF, Annie M Daughter F 8 1893
East Ham, Essex
MCGIFF, Kate Rosina Daughter F 7 1894
East Ham, Essex
DENNIS, Annie House Keeper Single F 38 1863 Housekeeper Domestic--------------------------------------
N K, Middlese

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 27 Aug 2013 16:37

AH was a later marriage



Name: Rose L Lightbody
Spouse Surname: Mcgiff
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1937
Registration District: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 140
Find Spouse: Alfred W McGiff

greyghost

greyghost Report 27 Aug 2013 16:55

There are McGiff births/deaths in West Ham RD Jane 1866/1866, Annie Cecilia 1867/1868 and Mary Ann 1884/1885 and a birth of a Thomas Michael 1874 who I can't find 1881. The other births are accountable in following census.
It was unusual for there to be only one child born to a marriage, so perhaps these children were William and Emily's and they "adopted" later on

George Clive

George Clive Report 27 Aug 2013 20:30

Hi Guys & Gals, thanks for that. Yup I have all those records OK already thanks. Yes her brother Alfred William McGiff did marry three times: 1st 1891 as a bachelor to Catherine Sarah Andrews (Spinster), 2nd 1904 Annie Dennis (Spinster & he was widowed) 3rd 1937 Rose Lilian Lightbody nee Bowtell (Widow & he was again widowed) All in West Ham district.

However my focus is only on Alfred's 'missing' sister Rose who was born supposedly abt 1878 at Notting Hill, London (I tried searching just name of Rose that time in Notting Hill, London but got too many!) Just trying to find any BMD records for her alone. Perhaps as suggested by Stuart above she was not a natural cild but was adopted; however if she was given the adopted name of Rose McGiff why no marriage or death record for her in adopted name? Or perhaps she reverted to original name later or emigrated, but what you think? Another possibility was as her paternal grandfather Michael McGiff was from Ireland she could have gone to live with Irish family relations there and staid/worked/married in Ireland, hence no later records in England?

NB: If of any further help we've got RM and her said brother AWM plus their (his) parents under 'Shirley's tree' (public) on Ancestry uk.

If anything further comes to light for 'sister' Rose McGiff b abt 1878 I'll be very interested and grateful, but looks like a brick wall and I just wanted to check with others that I'd not missed anything obvious (easy done!) Anyway thanks all for checking it out and trying.

Thanks very much,
George

greyghost

greyghost Report 28 Aug 2013 13:34

George,
We often post other records whilst looking for people, it helps eliminate options if nothing else. Other family members are always worth a look.
My guess (and that's all it is) would be that she was taken in by the family, there was no formal adoption then. She would then probably have used her "own" name as an adult and that unfortunately is where her subsequent records lie. As you say, too many Rose's