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This is very interesting information .I talk. ed with my cousin who lives in London she always thought there was a connection with London as Richard Black born1881 moved there from Scotland with his family in the late 1920,s
Billyl

??? Registered Ticket No :393, 494

Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941
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Last name: Black
First names: James
Age:
Day of birth:
Month of birth: 04
Year of birth: 1793
Place of birth:
County/country of birth: FIFE
Card type:
Discharge number:
Identity certificate no.:
Series: BT113
Date range: 1845-1854
Piece number: 197

Born at Carnock, Fife, he was a carpenter. First went to sea in 1816. Living at Commel? Rd when unemployed. He had brown hair, blue eyes, scar on left thigh. He could write. He was 5'10 1/2"
Issued in 1848.



Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941
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Last name: Black
First names: James
Age:
Day of birth:
Month of birth: 04
Year of birth: 1793
Place of birth: Fife
County/country of birth: Fife
Card type:
Discharge number:
Identity certificate no.:
Series: BT113
Date range: 1845-1854
Piece number: 137

Same person but says he first went to sea as a carpenter in 1809. He lived in London when unemployed. Says he could not write, had grey hair, blue eyes, mark on left thigh.
From what I can see, I think he was wrecked on 5 Dec 1847.
Issued in 1845.

Regarding my last post I'm now thinking we can rule out 1803 as James birth year .I looked at 1841 census records again taking into consideration this is same family which I'm sure they are it shows oldest daughter Elizabeth age 26 this would make James to young to be her father
Billy

These are listed for FMP (pre 1832)

BLACK James 1782 Fife Fife
BLACK James 1801 - Fifeshire Fife
BLACK James 1801 - Fifeshire Fife
BLACK James 1801 - Largo Fife
BLACK James Anstruther Fife (No date)
BLACK James Kirkcaldy Fife (No date)

Looking at the Cert of service record I'm thinking 1803 would be more possible birth year for James rather than 1792 .I'm basing that on youngest son Richards birth year 1837 .I really appreciate all your help in this search .
Billy

There are a few born later in Fife

Name: James Black
Estimated Age: 29
Birth Date: 17 Oct 1822
Birth Place: Newburgh, Fife
Issue Date: 20 Feb 1851
Issue Port: Sunderland
Certificate Number: 56.100

Name: James Black
Estimated Age: 27
Birth Date: 1825
Birth Place: Ferry Porton Craig, Fife
Issue Date: 5 Apr 1852
Issue Port: Dundee
Certificate Number: 6025

Name: James Black
Estimated Age: 30
Birth Date: 1845
Birth Place: Newport, Fife
Issue Date: 19 Jan 1875
Issue Port: Glasgow
Certificate Number: 93050

This is from Ancestry

Master's Certificate of Service

Name: James Black
Estimated Age: 48
Birth Date: 1803
Birth Place: Torryburn, Fife
Issue Date: 8 Feb 1851
Issue Port: Glasgow
Certificate Number: 50.323

James Black born at Torryburn, Fife in 1803 has been employed as App., Mate and Master 32 years in the British Merchant Service in the Foreign Trade.

Billy....There are a few James Black's on the Merchant Seamans' Register (FMP) but I dont have access ...The 3 at the top of the list were b Fife ....maybe of assistance if someone could check them out for you....
Like the others posting I am totally lost as to this "Black" family....cannot find anything....

I should have added .Shows on Richard.s marriage Cert his father James as Merchant seaman.

Thanks again for everyone's help much appreciated.I fully agree don't have much info to work with.I. messaged person researching Hutcheson tree
They could not tell me anything about James or Helen but said James and Helen,s son John married Margaret Carmicheal born 1823 Kinglassie Fife ,They also think Kinglassie FIfe is where James Black might have been born I found John Black 1871 Census Kinghorn flfe with wife Margaret and 2 children Isabella age 13 James age 9 . Billy

Helen's death record answers part of your original query, Billy.

She had a son named James, as well as the children listed in 1841 & 1851.

EDIT:
But no birth record for him, either.
There were 8 James Blacks registered in Scotland 1800-1854, with parents James and Helen.
But none of the Helens was a Robertson.

I agree, you need to double check the info you already have and not just rely on what you have been told. The dates are suspect to say the least.

As Helen's marriage hasn't been found, nor would it appear the majority of baptisms, then there are no dates to work on. Isabella Ramsay could be the child of a daughter who married before the 1841 census or just the child next door being looked after. Baptism wasn't compulsory, so maybe the rest of the children weren't, or the records are not available for whatever reason.

It might be worth going back to the Hutcheson researcher and asking where they got their information from or if they have any further information

Assuming James died at home and not at sea or elsewhere - big assumption - there are 2 possible burial records:

14/11/1841 BLACK JAMES ----- M ABBOTSHALL /FIFE 399/00 0060 0236
James Black in the midl (sic) grave of his property, 5 feet deep [then a couple of words I can't read].

07/09/1847 BLACK JAMES ----- M ABBOTSHALL /FIFE 399/00 0070 0176
James Black in the north grave of his son's burying ground, 5 feet deep, aged 67 years.

Helen's death:

1866 BLACK HELEN F 72 KIRKCALDY /FIFE 442/00 0039

Helen Black, widow of James Black, merchant seaman.
Died 2.00am, 20/02/1866 at Linktown, Abbotshall.
Parents' names not known.
Cause of death: Old age. Not certified.
Informant: James Black, son, New Town.

William....Double check James' death year ?? 1852...as the 1851 Census shows Helen Black already a widow......

Thanks for everyone's help. The only info on RIchard.s marriage Cert Townhill Dunfermline 28th Dec 1880 to Georgina Rutherford shows James's Black and Helen Robertson both deceased as his parents . Checking back info that was passed on to me James death year 1852 Helen 1860. Regarding Ann Black born 1841 after her mother Isabella married Robert Hutchison1843 she was then known as Ann Hutchison. :-P

James black.s birth year 1792 was passed on to me by someone reserching the Hutchison family. Also told me that Robert Black Son of James and helen was born in Aberdeen..

It looks like the only hard facts we have about James are from Richard's marriage certificate.
Could you let us know ALL the information on it please.

Per ScotlandsPeople:

There is no Richard Black registered in Fife 1830-45.

Two Ann (or variation) Blacks registered in Fife 1839-41, but neither has the right parents.

Two Isabella Ramsays in Fife 1839-41:

03/04/1841 RAMSAY ISABELLA JAMES RAMSAY/MARY ANN MONTGOMERY FR1827 (FR1827) F DYSART /FIFE 426/00 0060 0411

06/04/1841 RAMSAY ISABELLA WILLIAM RAMSAY/ISABEL SKINNER F DYSART /FIFE 426/00 0060 0205