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Really am stopping now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back again....

William Allen Roe died at a youngish age:

Deaths Sep 1878 Roe William Allen 44 Leicester 7a 154<<<<<

Son William is not living with widowed mother Mary in 1881:

Address: 94, Melbourne Rd, Leicester St Margaret County: Leicestershire

ROE, Mary Head Widow F 38 1843 Clerk Wadhurst, Sussex
ROE, Albert R E Son Single M 15 1866 Boot Packer London, St Lukes
ROE, Alice E Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar London, Peckham
ROE, Frederick L Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire
ROE, Harry V Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire
ROE, Grace A Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Humberstone, Leicestershire
ROE, Kate A Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire
LAW, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1858 Servant (Domestic)
Aylestone, Leicestershire
ROE, Florence M A Daughter Single F 14 1867 Scholar
Deaf London, London, Middlesex

Had he been sent away to school?

Name: William Thos. Roe
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relationship to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England<<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Pinner
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address: Coml Travs Schools
Education:


Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: Hendon
Sub-registration District: Harrow
ED, institution, or vessel: Commercial Travellers School<<<<<<<<<<<

???

Probable marriage of the parents of William Allen Roe, and his siblings Richard Roe, Jane Roe and James Roe.


Name: Thomas Roe
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Esther Allen
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 19 Oct 1820
Event Place: Northampton, Northampton, England
Father's Name:
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name:
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01181-4
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1999889
Reference ID: Item 1 p141

Going back to the marriage Rose posted early on, Esther's second name is given as Allen, and she is also Esther Allen Roe in the 1911 census previously posted by Helen.

So both her names could stem from her likely paternal grandmother Esther Allen, who married Thomas Roe.

Two of her husband William Thomas Roe's sisters also have the second name Allen.

Births Mar 1876 ROE Grace Allen Billesdon 7a 30
Births Mar 1878 Roe Kate Allen Leicester 7a 254

Brother Frederick's name seems to confirm mother Mary's maiden name from the 1864 marriage I posted earlier.

Births Jun 1872 ROE Frederick Sivyer Leicester 7a 221

It seems pretty certain to me that Esther Allen Roe's father Richard, and her husband William Thomas Roe's father William Allen Roe were brothers, baptised 18th Nov 1837 along with their sibs Jane and James, as the children of Thomas Roe and Esther Allen.

Birth for William Thomas Roe's mother?

Ticehurst covers Wadhurst:

Births Mar 1843 Sivyer Mary Ticehurst 7 483

Sister Frances 'Linger' mentioned in that 1871 census:

Births Sep 1848 SIVYER Frances Clerkenwell 3 91

The Sivyer girls in 1851:

Address: 3, Buxton Street, Saint James Clerkenwell, Finsbury County: Middlesex

SIVYER, Reuben Head Married M 35 1816 Police Constable Wadhurst, Sussex
SIVYER, Ann Wife Married F 30 1821 Wadhurst, Sussex
SIVYER, Mary Daughter F 8 1843 Wadhurst, Sussex<<<<<<
SIVYER, Sarah A Daughter F 5 1846 Scholar Clerkenwell, Middlesex
SIVYER, Frances Daughter F 2 1849 Clerkenwell, Middlesex<<<
SIVYER, Elizabeth Daughter F 0 (4 MOS) 1851 Clerkenwell, Middlesex

Sorry for duplicating the thread. I got the date of the voyage to America wrong on the first one and I thought I had deleted it. I think this all makes sense now. William Thomas was the son of William Allen, who in turn was the son of Thomas and Ester
Allen.
The other Esther Allen was indeed the daughter of Richard and Ann Frost.
I didn't know about Jane at all and didn't realise they were put in the workhouse.
I am still a bit surprised that William Thomas seems to have been born in London all the others were born in Woodford Northants.
Thanks for all your help

That's down to his father William Allen Roe moving around..

The first few siblings of William Thomas were also born in the London area (see census 1871)

Albert N E Roe 5 c1866 St Luke, London, England
Florance M A Roe 4 c1867 Shoreditch, London, England
William T Roe 2 c1869 Islington, London, England<<<<<
Alice E Roe 2 Months c1871 Deptford, St Paul

and the family moved to Leicestershire (where William Allen Roe died) not long after the 1871 census (see the extra children with widowed Mary in the 1881 census I posted).

ROE, Frederick S Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire
ROE, Harry V Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire
ROE, Grace A Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Humberstone, Leicestershire
ROE, Kate A Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar Leicester, Leicestershire

I did wonder if this was the fourth child of Esther and Thomas, from that batch 1837 baptism - hard to know as the baptism record doesn't give us any clue as to their age.

At least this one's not in the workhouse!

Census 1841:

Address: Bakehouse Lane, Woodford County: Northamptonshire

GUNN, Joseph M 40 1801 Northamptonshire
GUNN, Frances F 40 1801 Northamptonshire
GUNN, Peter M 10 1831 Northamptonshire
GUNN, George M 8 1833 Northamptonshire
GUNN, Jabez M 3 1838 Northamptonshire
GUNN, Joseph M 1 1840 Northamptonshire
ROE, James M 12 1829 Northamptonshire<<<<<<<<<<<<<

EDIT: Small world! :-) Joseph Gunn's brother Jacob married Keziah Loveday, my second cousin 4 x removed.

You probably have Elizabeth already:


Name: Elizabeth Roe
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 25 Jan 1824
Christening Place: Woodford, Northampton, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Thomas Roe
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Esther Roe
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04951-9
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1999552
Reference ID: it2,#205

Thanks for all your help Kucinta, it has opened up new lines of research for me.
There seam to be several Roe families in the Northampton and Leicester area, but so far I have not been able to connect them. I would really like to find a common ancestor but it seems there is no information before about 1550 (dissolution of the monasteries ?). There are Roes in Tipperary and in Devon but how could I find a link, if there is one?

It was Thomas Cromwell who ordered parish priests to start keeping records of baptisms/marriages/burials c1538, which was certainly during the period of the dissolution of the monasteries, though I'm not sure the two were directly connected so much as they both followed on from Henry VIII's split with Rome.

Glad to have opened up new avenues for you - hope you find some new sprigs for the family tree :-)