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Missing Pleasance's

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Nicola

Nicola Report 7 Oct 2013 23:51

Looking for parents and siblings of Frederick Robert Pleasance, born 1900,Hackney. He married Beatrice Iles in Shoreditch 1925. Believe he's parents were William Charles Pleasance and Sarah Celia Hall, married in 1897, West Ham.
Having trouble finding any census or BMD info, to confirm any family for Fred.
Any help most welcome.

patchem

patchem Report 8 Oct 2013 00:19

Just for ref:
Frederick Robert Pleasance
Birth Date: 14 Apr 1900
Date of Registration: Mar 1973
Age at Death: 72
Registration District: Hackney
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 1744

patchem

patchem Report 8 Oct 2013 00:20

?
From ancestry London records:
Frederick Pleasance
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 26 Sep 1900
Father's Name: William Pleasance
Mother's Name: Sarah Pleasance
Parish or Poor Law Union: Shadwell, St Paul
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers
4 Radnor Road, Plaistow

Added:
No, claims birth was Nov 8th 1899.

Do you know that he was definitely born in Hackney?

The name of his Father will be on his marriage certificate - have you ordered it?

Sylvia

Sylvia Report 8 Oct 2013 00:31

Not sure if this is the same person in 1911 census

about Frederick Pleasance
Name: Frederick Pleasance
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: St John-at-Hackney
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: Blind School, 2, 4 and 6 Warwick Road, Upper Clapton, N E
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration District: Hackney
Registration District Number: 11
Sub-registration District: North Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 6

Nicola

Nicola Report 8 Oct 2013 00:53

I'm pretty sure my Fred, had parents William C Pleasance and Sarah C (Hall) in west Ham 1901, Fred and elder brother John seem to be in some type of institution in East london 1911, Mother Sarah C Pleasance and her mother inlaw Mary Pleasance living together in 1911, no sign of William C Pleasance snr or eldest son William C Pleasance in 1911?. There is a connection with the name Knapp somewhere and a Edith Knapp aged 24 Boarder was living with Sarah C and Mary Pleasance in 1911!
Still confused but Thanks for everyone's help.

Nicola

Nicola Report 8 Oct 2013 01:09

After searching every possible Fred C Pleasance, I keep coming up with the same one in a Blind institution in 1911, saying he was blind from birth. I am researching this family tree for a old friend, who has ever mentioned that her Grandfather was blind...Could there be some mistake! surely she would know this. Now doubting I have the right Fred!!

patchem

patchem Report 8 Oct 2013 06:58

Nicola,

If you are having problems you need to order his marriage certificate for confirmation that his father is William.
It would be a waste of time and effort to follow the wrong people.
Did I have the correct death for him?
Just wondered when he started using 'Robert'?


Sylvia,

You can edit your posting to remove all the extra stuff, and get rid of the spacings. I stop reading information when it is full of blank spaces taking up 2 screens.




MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 8 Oct 2013 22:20

He was using the middle name of Robert when he was with Beatrice on this 1939 ER.

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Beatrice Pleasance
Year: 1939
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Shoreditch
Street Address: 36 Ely Place

Dea

Dea Report 9 Oct 2013 10:56

I would think that this death is a better match for the one who was baptised as son of William and Sarah ??

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Frederick Pleasance
Name: Frederick Pleasance
Birth Date: 6 Nov 1899
Date of Registration: Nov 1988
Age at Death: 89
Registration District: Chelmsford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 1967

We know that this one is the blind child as he was with William and Sarah in 1901:

1901 census transcription details for: 135, Queens Road, West Ham
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1573
Folio: 41
Page: 13
Reg. District: West Ham
Sub District: Plaistow
Parish: West Ham
Enum. District: 34
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 135, Queens Road, West Ham
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
PLEASANCE, William C Head Married M 30 1871 Bricklayer Improver
West Ham Plaistow, Essex
PLEASANCE, Sarah C Wife Married F 28 1873
West Ham Plaistow, Essex
PLEASANCE, William C Son M 10 1891
West Ham Plaistow, Essex
PLEASANCE, John Son M 3 1898
West Ham Plaistow, Essex
PLEASANCE, Frederick Son M 1 1900
Blind Chd West Ham Plaistow, Essex


Therefore I think that this is not the one you are looking for, especially if the Frederick Robert death posted above for 1973 is the correct one.

You really DO need that marriage cert. !!!

Dea x

Choccy

Choccy Report 9 Oct 2013 11:17


?? FMP

Britain: outbound passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 - person transcript

Name: Wm C PLEASANCE
Date of departure: 23 February 1911
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: Halifax
Destination country: Canada
Date of Birth:
Age:
Marital Status: Single
Sex: Male
Occupation: Lab
Notes:
Passenger recorded on: Page 2 of 25
The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Wm PLEASANCE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ship: HESPERIAN
Official Number: 124266
Master's name: W T Main
Steamship Line: Allan Line Steamship Co. Ltd
Where bound: Saint John NB, Canada
Square feet: 34520
Registered tonnage: 6123
Passengers on voyage: 936


Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935


Name: Wm Pleasance

Gender:Male

Age: 43

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868

Date of Arrival: 4 Mar 1911

Vessel:Hesperian

Search Ship Database:

Port of Arrival:
Halifax, Nova Scotia

Port of Departure
Liverpool, England

Roll:
T-4738


Nicola

Nicola Report 11 Oct 2013 00:08

Thanks everyone, I think I need to get more info from family and marriage cert to confirm but I know for certain that Frederick Robert Pleasance born 1900 married in Shoreditch 1925, Beatrice May Iles (born 1902).Frederick robert Pleasance died in 1973 in Hackney and Beatrice died in 1992, southend on sea. William Pleasance snr is nowhere to be seen in 1911 so the William Pleasance on a ship to Canada in 1911 is a explanation (thanks Choccy). The 1939 ER in Hackney from MarieCeleste fits perfectly with the family too.Just one more question to those in the know..would a marriage or death cert state if the person was blind?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 11 Oct 2013 08:10

Hi Nicola, I think it's highly unlikely that the marriage cert would say if he was blind, unless something in his occupation gave an indication. Couldn't say for certain on the death cert, would think not but someone else may confirm.

I think you really do need to buy the marriage cert to avoid any chance of following the wrong Pleasances.

In 1961 there was a Beatrice Pleasance with a Frederick (no middle name).

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Beatrice Pleasance
Year: 1961
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Hackney Central
Street Address: 74 Richmond Road

At the same address was a John and Joyce Black, could be related or it could be apartments.

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 08:13

I doubt very much that either of those certificates would mention blindness.

Any mental or physical conditions attributing to his cause of death would be mentioned but it is unlikely that blindness would be relevant here.

Dea x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 11 Oct 2013 08:14

An ER with a full set of middle names:

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Beatrice May Pleasance
Year: 1935
County or Borough: Hackney
Ward or Division/Constituency: Shoreditch and Stoke Newington
Street Address: 17 Hemsworth Street

with Frederick Robert Pleasance.

At the same address are Louisa Cowdery; Harriet Elizabeth Fenton; Robert William & Minnie Florence Heavens.

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 08:33

Marriages Mar 1949 (>99%)
Black John H Pleasance Hackney 5c 1280

Pleasance Joyce C Black Hackney 5c 1280

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 08:36

Births Sep 1925 (>99%)
Pleasance Joyce C Iles Shoreditch 1c 123

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 09:19

You really do need that Marriage cert because, as I have mentioned above, I do NOT think that the 'William and Sarah' family is the family of 'your' Frederick.

However, relating to the post of the passengers to Canada by Choccy above, I do believe they are the ones missing from this family on 1911 census.

Wm snr. is stated as 43 and a bricklayer and the younger one is 19 and a grocer. - They are aiming for Sackertoon? and there is some extra writing on there which is very hard to read! - It says (something like) _______ to brother in law ________ proposed family to follow ________

If anyone would like to see if they can read it I will send the image by pm.

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 11:42

Sarah and Maud travelled out to Canada in 1912.

Britain: outbound passenger lists


Name: Mrs S PLEASANCE
Date of departure: 22 November 1912
Port of departure: Liverpool
Passenger destination port: Halifax, Canada
Passenger destination: Halifax, Canada
Date of Birth: 1875 (calculated from age)
Age: 37
Marital status:
Sex: Female
Occupation: Wife


The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage:

Maud PLEASANCE - aged 9

Ship: VICTORIAN
Official Number: 121216
Master's name: E Outram
Steamship Line: Allan Line Steamship Co. Ltd.
Where bound: St Johns NF, Canada
Square feet: 16326
Registered tonnage: 6743
Passengers on voyage: 640

Dea x

Dea

Dea Report 11 Oct 2013 12:58

This question is relevant to a 'theory' which I have been following.

You say above:
"There is a connection with the name Knapp somewhere and a Edith Knapp aged 24 Boarder was living with Sarah C and Mary Pleasance in 1911"

In actual fact, that boarder is edith MAPP who's family live on the same road in the 1911 - she had been a servant and was now working as a shop assistant, presumably in the shop where she was residing with the Pleasance's.

I don't think there is any connection other than that?

However, do you have any other reason why you think there is a connection to the name 'KNAPP' as this 'could' be of some relevance.

Dea x

Choccy

Choccy Report 11 Oct 2013 13:11



??


Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KNAPP Frederick Robert Bethnal G. 1c 214

KNAPP William Wallace Bethnal G. 1c 213



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Frederick Roberts Knapp

Record Type: Baptism

Baptism Date: 6 May 1900

Father's Name: William Wallace Knapp

Mother's Name: Charlotte Knapp

Parish or Poor Law Union:Haggerston All Saints

Borough:Hackney

Register Type: Parish Registers


William Wallace Knapp baptised same day, with same date of birth

Address - 47 Huntingdon Street

Occupation of father - Porter

>>>>>>>>Date of birth - 15th April 1900