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I wonder whether anyone would be able to help me with Richard Guest, born 1886, please?

I've found him as follows in 1901:

Newton-in-Makerfield, Warrington District, Lancashire:
Richard G Guest, aged 14, Inmate, born Everton, Liverpool (Occupation Machine Feeder)

Since access to the original documents was changed I can no longer check earlier pages to see what kind of institution Richard was an Inmate in.

Does anyone know, please?

it was a reformatory school

LIVERPOOL FARM REFORMATORY SCHOOL FOR BOYS, NEWTON-LE-WILLOWS, LANCASHIRE.

a.k.a.

LIVERPOOL REFORMATORY FARM SCHOOL FOR BOYS, NEWTON-LE-WILLOWS, LANCASHIRE



Certified 6th April 1859. Re-certified 4th November 1916 for 156 boys. Became LIVERPOOL FARM/RED BANK APPROVED SCHOOL for 115 boys from 1933.

STAFF

1866 - Mr Atty

1867 - Superintendent Mr Atty ; and his wife ; schoolmaster Mr Needham.

1868 - Superintendent Mr Atty ; and his wife ; schoolmaster Mr Needham.

1869 - Mr Atty.

1872 - Superintendent and matron Mr & Mrs Atty ; schoolmaster Mr Needham ; assistant Mr H. Atty

1884 - Superintendent Mr R.W. Atty ; matron Mrs Atty ; schoolmaster Mr Needham ; assistant Mr Aldridge.

1891 - Superintendent and matron Mr & Mrs John Digweed ; assistant matron Miss Digweed ; chief schoolmaster, Mr Baxter ; assistants Messrs. Brailsford and Sims. Mr. John Digweed, was for many years the head schoolmaster of the "Akbar" (Reformatory School Ship).

1893 - Superintendent and matron Mr & Mrs John Digweed ; assistant matron Miss Digweed ; schoolmaster Mr Needham.

1900 - Superintendent and matron Mr & Mrs Digweed ; schoolmaster Mr E.T. French ; assistant teacher Mr Faunthorpe appointed to succeed Mr Melville 12th March 1899.

1903 - Superintendent and matron Mr & Mrs Digweed ; assistant matron Miss Digweed ; schoolmaster Mr E.T. French ; Mr Ibbotson, assistant schoolmaster left 31st December 1902 and was succeeded next day by Mr J. Ashton.



Mr Digsweed was in charge in 1891

Liverpool Farm Reformatory School for Boys - Missing-ancestors.com
www.missing-ancestors.com/liverpool_farm_reformatory_schnewton-le-willowinfo.htm

LIVERPOOL FARM REFORMATORY SCHOOL FOR BOYS, NEWTON-LE-
WILLOWS, LANCASHIRE. a.k.a.. LIVERPOOL REFORMATORY FARM SCHOOL
FOR ...

Sounds like he was at the 'naughty boys' school'!

I'd like to give the excuse that his dad died in 1903 - but that would be letting Richard off the hook for his actions. (Wonder what he did?)

What I really believe is that he should have 'kept his nose clean' as we were always told to do.

Thank you, Maddie, for your help.

I'm sure you have this but it's nice to see Richard seems to be in employment and making an honest life for himself. :-) :-) :-)



1911 census transcription details for: 4 Willoughby St Gainsboro
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National Archive Reference:

RG14PN20154 RG78PN1205 RD425 SD3 ED11 SN211
Reg. District: Gainsborough
Sub District: Gainsborough
Parish: Gainsborough
Enum. District: 11
Address: 4 Willoughby St Gainsboro
County: Lincolnshire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
PALMER, Ellen Head Widow F 44 1867 General Shop Keeper Off Bar License Elksley Notts
PALMER, Olive Louisa Daughter Single F 23 1888 Cainsborough
PALMER, Fredrick Arthur Son Single M 21 1890 Cainsborough
PALMER, Alice Maud Daughter Single F 19 1892 Cainsborough
PALMER, Florence Eveline Daughter Single F 16 1895 Cainsborough
PALMER, Gladys Mary Daughter Single F 13 1898 Cainsborough
PALMER, Lillian Lucy Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Cainsborough
STANTON, Henry Sidney Boarder Single M 23 1888 Joiner Barnetby Le Wold
>>GUEST, Richard Gordon Boarder Single M 24 1887 Moulders Labourer Liverpool Lancs
KNIGHTON, Lionel William Boarder Single M 22 1889 Iron Turner Marty Tydvil
PALLARD, Arthur Boarder Single M 33 1878 Blacksmiths Labourer Lancs Manchester
BURGESS, William Boarder Single M 29 1882 Engine Tenter Devon Plumouth

FreeBmd has his middle name slightly different:

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
GUEST Richard Gorton W. Derby 8b 378

It may prove significant later on.

Dea x

Why would his father's death in 1903 have affected his behaviour in 1901?

Could this be him?

GUEST, R G

Rank: Serjeant
Service No:11515
Date of Death:11/05/1917
Regiment/Service:East Lancashire Regiment 6th Bn.

Grave ReferenceXIII. G. 3.
CemeteryAMARA WAR CEMETERY


Or this?


Death

Name: GUEST, Richard G
Registration district: Pancras
County: London
Year of registration: 1915
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death:26
Volume no: 1B
Page no: 19

It was Richard's mother who had died before 1901. His father (quite a few years older than his mother) was an inmate/patient at the West Derby Union Infirmary (a Retired Ship's Carpenter) in 1901, dying there a couple of years later.

I had Richard in my records as Richard Gordon/Gorton. To be certain I need to buy the Birth Certificate.

You're right; I, too, found him gainfully employed in Lincolnshire and I believe that the Richard whose death was in WW1 with the East Lancs Regiment was the same Richard. I had a handful of relatives in the East Lancs Regiment.

Thank you everyone.

Too early to be your Richard, but possibly related:


Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Richard Gorton Guest
Name: Richard Gorton Guest
Birth Date: 16 Jul
Baptism Date: 9 Aug 1839
Parish:Liverpool, St Martin-in-the-Fields
Father's Name: William Guest
Mother's Name: Esther Guest
Reference Number: 283 MAR/2/1

1891

Name: Richard Guest
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Guest
Mother's Name: Martha Guest
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chad
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2955
Folio: 6
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
William Guest 60
Martha Guest 35
Charlotte Guest 16
Herbert Guest 7
Alfred Guest 6
Richard Guest 4
Sarah Guest 3



Are you sure that his mother died before 1901 please? Or have I got the wrong family?

1901

Name: Sarah Guest
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's Name: Martha Eyles
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 28
Piece: 3454
Folio: 30
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
John Eyles 36
Martha Eyles 44
Alfred Guest 16
Sarah Guest 13
John Eyles 7
Martha Eyles 5

?????

Marriages Dec 1891
Allert Martha W. Derby 8b 627
Eyles John W. Derby 8b 627
Fair Charles Cuthbert W. Derby 8b 627
Williams Emma W. Derby 8b 627



Marriages Dec 1881
Allert Martha W. Derby 8b 851
GUEST William W. Derby 8b 851
LEATHERBARROW Mary W. Derby 8b 851
PILKINGTON William W. Derby 8b 851

Name: Martha Allert, SPINSTER
Birth Year: abt 1854
Age: 37
Marriage Date: 25 Oct 1891
Parish: Everton, St Cuthbert
Spouse's Name: John Eyles
Father's Name: William Allert, gardener (dec'd)
Spouse Father's Name: George Eyles
Reference Number: 283 CUT/3/1

Address for both 29 Venice Street.


Interesting. Was Martha the sister of William's first wife?


Name: William Guest
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1871
Parish: Liverpool, St Nicholas
Spouse's Name: Charlotte Allert
Father's Name: William Guest, Gardener
Spouse Father's Name: William Allert, Gardener
Reference Number: 283 NIC/3/73

1861

Name: Martha Allert
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Allert
Mother's Name: Dorothy Allert
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Everton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chrysostom
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 68
Piece: 2714
Folio: 57
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
William Allert 49, Gardener
Dorothy Allert 49
Charlotte Allert 24
Peter Allert 16
Joyse Allert 14 <<< a witness at Charlotte's marriage
Caroline Allert 10
James Allert 9
Martha Allert 7
Elizabeth Allert 4

1881

Name: William Guest
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship to Head: Head
Mother: Esther Guest
Gender: Male
Where born: Lpool, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 69 Towson St
Marital Status: Widow
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Wood Carver & Joiner (Unemployed)

Registration District: West Derby
Sub-registration District: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 79
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3669
Folio: 112
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
William Guest 50
William R. Guest 13
John J. Guest 8
Charlotte E. Guest 6
Priscilla Guest 2
Esther Guest 78




Deaths Mar 1881
Guest Charlotte 44 W. Derby 8b 332

1911

Name: Martha Eyles
Age in 1911: 55
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Everton, Liverpool
Civil Parish: Walton on the Hill
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Arnot Street Walton Lpool
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Own House Work
Registration District: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration District: Walton
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Piece: 22389
Household Members:
Name Age
John Eyles 46
Martha Eyles 55 Married 20 years, 3 children born, 2 living
John Benjamin Eyles 17
Martha Eyles 15


????

Deaths Dec 1918 Eyles Martha J 63 W.Derby 8b 732

Poor Richard was probably confused rather than naughty. His father seemed to have farmed out Richard's half siblings / cousins from his first marriage. Then his mother trades his father in for a younger model and bigamously marries him. Except her marriage to Richard's father was probably illegal as he was the widow of Martha's sister Charlotte. It wasn't legal to marry your dead wife's sister until 1907.

Well - more information and it's great.

Potty: thank you for finding another of the Guest children (I only had Priscilla, Mary, William and James Edwin so now I can add Richard G (1839) to the list . William and Esther were indeed their parents (Esther was nee Brooker/Brookes, born Wrightington, Lancashire; in the entry of one register it looked like Brooker and in another Brookes so I'll have to get a magnifying glass but I do think it's Brooker as I've found some moved to Liverpool who had been born at Wrightington).

root gatherer: thank you for finding Martha married to Mr Eyles. The only thing that flummoxed me was that she gave her father's name as George Allert.

I had not thought to check for marriages with her maiden name Allert. It looks as though she left William and then married (bigamously?) John Eyles. I'm not surprised that she and William separated/divorced though as he was so much older than her and away at sea quite a lot. II think you're right - she was Charlotte's sister even though Martha gave her father's name as George instead of William. There's a thing, root gatherer, perhaps she discovered she'd married illegally and had the marriage annulled.

More stories for the family. Thank you.

Help, again, please!

I've just entered Richard G Guest X(bapt) 9 August 1839 at Liverpool into my family pages and discovered that I have James Edwin Guest X 20 Dec 1839 (the same year).

Have I made an error in entering James Edwin as the son of William & Esther Guest nee Brookes?

It looks as if there were two William and Esther Guests. The addresses and occupations for the two baptism are different; William, labourer, Scotland Rd and William, blacksmith, Vauxhall Rd.

Thanks, Potty - and what a coincidence. It makes me wonder if many people have the wrong children on their trees.

I think I've identified 'my' Guests and Richard bapt at St Martin-in-the Field was unlikely to be one of them.

My lot are:

William (who is my direct ancestor), Mary, Priscilla and James Edwin
were all baptised at Liverpool St Nicholas

Their parents were William (the blacksmith) and Esther nee Brooker.

I can't see that they would have gone to a different church for Richard so I guess he's not mine.