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Helen Lumsden Keith (c1871)

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Robert

Robert Report 22 Dec 2013 00:33

Hi looking for any info on Helen Lumsden Keith born c1871. Place of birth i think was England pos London. Father William T Keith born c1828 in Aberdeen and occupation was a bookseller. Mother i believe to be Helen Lumsden , she had possibly remarried, previous spouse Phillip. Father William T Keith also remarried later to Jean/Jane Miller in 1879,. She( Jean/Jane ) had subsequently had prior marriage, spouse Robertson.
Finding it really difficult to find Helen's place of birth as well as anything on her mother.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob.

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 22 Dec 2013 01:31

1871 possible

Name: Ellen C Keith Age: 1 Month Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Williams Sekeath Mother's Name: Jana C Sekeath Gender: Female Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Ely Rents and Hatton Garden and Saffron Hill
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: London Country: England
Registration District: Holborn
Sub-registration District: Saffron Hill ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household Schedule Number: 68 Piece: 377 Folio: 33 Page Number: 10 Household Members:
Name Age
Williams Sekeath 43 born Scotland
Jana C Sekeath 29
Mary A Keith 4
Ellen C Keith 1 Month
John A Honnelly 22

Class: RG10; Piece: 377; Folio: 33; Page: 10; GSU roll: 824616

William is a stationer

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 22 Dec 2013 01:37

Her birth is listed on FreeBMD

mgnv

mgnv Report 22 Dec 2013 03:56

As I read the 1871 names, the first two (on RG10/377/33/9) are William S Keath, Jane C Keath, and the 2 daurs & boarder are Mary A Keith, Ellen C Keith & John A Donnelly.

I would suggest you get Mary A's Scottish b.cert - it should name the parents with the time & place of their marr.
Then, get that marr cert - it should name the couple's parents.

I'm totally confused about Jane's subsequent prior marriage. Did this happen before her marr to Wm Keith, or after?

patchem

patchem Report 22 Dec 2013 08:30

As you know of her existence, could you tell us how you worked back to her, and whether you found her in any censuses, or marriage or death?

Thank-you

patchem

patchem Report 22 Dec 2013 08:45

Just putting 1881 for reference, looks like same Jane as 1871? :
1881 Scotland Census
William T Keith Age: 53 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jane Keith
Gender: Male Where born: Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Registration number: 168/1
Registration District: St Nicholas Civil Parish: Aberdeen St Nicholas
County: Aberdeenshire Address: 13
Occupation: Bookseller
ED: 64 Household Schedule Number: 87 Line: 19 Roll: cssct1881_51
William T Keith 53
Jane Keith 39 Cupar Angus, Forfarshire
Rebecca Robertson Or Keith 20 Nigg, Kincardineshire
Mary A Robertson Or Keith 15 Nigg, Kincardineshire
Helen L Keith 10 England
Florence J Keith 8 Edinburgh, Mid Lothian
John J Keith 6 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Wm T Keith Jr. 2 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John R Moncur 6 Mo grnson Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Source Citation: Parish: Aberdeen St Nicholas; ED: 64; Page: 17; Line: 19; Roll: cssct1881_51.

Gins

Gins Report 22 Dec 2013 08:53

Jane was born a 'Miller' looking at the census records



1861 Scotland Census


Name:
Rebecca Robertson

Age:7 Mo

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1860

Relationship:Daughter

Father's Name:William Robertson

Mother's Name:Jean Robertson

Gender:Female

Where born:Nigg, Kincardineshire

Registration number:266

Registration District:Nigg

Civil Parish:Nigg

County:Kincardineshire

Address:4 Cove Village

ED:3

Household Schedule Number:4

Line:13

Roll:CSSCT1861_35

Household Members:


Name

Age

William Robertson 37
Jean Robertson 20
Rebecca Robertson 7 Mo
Margaret Miller 12 <<Sister


patchem

patchem Report 22 Dec 2013 08:55

Just for further reference, as presumably you have this:
1861 Scotland Census
Jean Robertson Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : William Robertson
Gender: Female Where born: Angus, pathshire corpess
Registration number: 266 Registration District: Nigg
Civil Parish: Nigg County: Kincardineshire
Address: 4 Cove Village
ED: 3 Household Schedule Number: 4 Line: 12 Roll: CSSCT1861_35
William Robertson 37
Jean Robertson 20
Rebecca Robertson 7 Mo
Margaret Miller 12 sister Aberdeen
Source Citation: Parish: Nigg; ED: 3; Page: 1; Line: 12; Roll: CSSCT1861_35.

Gins

Gins Report 22 Dec 2013 08:56


1881 Scotland Census

Name:Rebecca Robertson Or Keith

Age:20

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1861

Relationship:Daughter

Father's Name:
William T Keith

Mother's Name:
Jane Keith

Gender:Female

Where born:Nigg, Kincardineshire

Registration number:168/1

Registration District:St Nicholas

Civil Parish:Aberdeen St Nicholas

County:Aberdeenshire

Address:13

Occupation:Formerly House Maid (Dom:Serv)

ED:64

Household Schedule Number:87

Line:21

Roll:cssct1881_51

Household Members:


Name

Age

William T Keith 53
Jane Keith 39
Rebecca Robertson Or Keith 20
Mary A Robertson Or Keith 15
Helen L Keith 10
Florence J Keith 8
John J Keith 6
Wm T Keith Jr. 2
John R Moncur 6 months Grandson

patchem

patchem Report 22 Dec 2013 08:58

?
1871 Scotland Census
Rebecca Robertson Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relationship: Boarder Gender: Female
Where born: Nigg, kincardinesh
Registration number: 266
Registration District: Nigg Civil Parish: Nigg County: Kincardineshire
Address: Licenser House Altens Road
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4 Household Schedule Number: 86 Line: 22 Roll: CSSCT1871_46
Andrew Wood 46
Mary Wood 47
Rebecca Robertson 10
Jean Robertson 8
Elizabeth Robertson 6
Source Citation: Parish: Nigg; ED: 4; Page: 19; Line: 22; Roll: CSSCT1871_46.

patchem

patchem Report 22 Dec 2013 09:05

She is in 3 public member trees on ancestry.
Mother quoted as Jane Christina Miller in one of them.

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Dec 2013 09:29

Where have you looked, Robert?

Did you use freebmd?

EDIT As her birth is on freebmd, I guess not.

If you get a copy of the cert, you'll have FACTS...................

Did you look for her in 1881?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 09:56

Robert - does this info fit what you have for your Helen?

Helen Lumsden Keith Milne in entry for William Keith Milne, "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"

Name: William Keith Milne
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 Aug 1891
Birthplace: St Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland
Father's Name: Robert Hutchison Milne
Mother's Name: Helen Lumsden Keith Milne

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01885-5
System Origin: Scotland-EASy
GS Film number: 255093
Reference ID: v 168-1 p 400

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 10:01

Yes, the 1901 fits

MILNE, Robert H Head Married M 32 1869 Shop Porter Crimond, Aberdeenshire
MILNE, Helen L Wife Married F 30 1871 London
MILNE, Robert Son M 12 1889 Scholar Aberdeen
MILNE, John Son M 10 1891 Scholar Aberdeen
MILNE, William Son M 9 1892 Scholar Aberdeen
MILNE, George Son M 4 1897 Aberdeen
MILNE, Edward Son M 2 1899 Aberdeen

Piece: 168 Folio: 13A Page: 2
Registration District: St Machar
Civil Parish: Aberdeen

Address: 119, Chapel Street, Aberdeen County: Aberdeenshire

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 10:11

One credit on ScotlandsPeople gives the following marriage:

1889 MILNE ROBERT HUTCHISO KEITH HELEN LUMSDEN ST NICHOLAS ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/01 0124

You could download that record which should also give her mother's maiden name.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 11:00

I see there's a daughter Florence J on the 1881 census:

Jane Christina Miller in entry for Florence Jones Keith, "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"

Name: Florence Jones Keith
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 16 Jun 1872
Birthplace: LEITH,MIDLOTHIAN,SCOTLAND

Father's Name: William Taylor Keith
Mother's Name: Jane Christina Miller

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11692-1
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516

(From FamilySearch)

Useful to have William's middle name clarified.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 11:04

I'm guessing Robert must have this 1861 to know about the Philip connection:

KEITH, William Taylor Head Married M 35 1826 Bookseller Aberdeenshire
LUMSDEN OR KEITH, Helen Wife Married F 42 1819 Old Aberdeen
PHILIP, John Son Unmarried M 19 1842 Blacksmith Aberdeenshire
PHILIP, Christina L Daughter Unmarried F 17 1844 Stationer Aberdeenshire
PHILIP, William J Son Unmarried M 15 1846 Tinsmith Old Aberdeen
PHILIP, James L Son Unmarried M 10 1851 Scholar Upper Canada B S
KEITH, Robert W Son Unmarried M 8 1853 Scholar Upper Canada B S
KEITH, Frederick L Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Scholar Upper Canada B S

Piece: 168 Folio: 0 Page: 25
Registration District: St Nicholas Civil
Parish: St Nicholas

Address: Blackfriars Street, St Nicholas County: Aberdeenshire

So did William and Helen marry in Canada?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 11:11

Link for William Taylor Keith's death

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=KE&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GScntry=50&GSsr=281&GRid=23706049&

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 11:21

There are numerous articles about William Taylor Keith in the newspaper archives. Don't know if they all relate to the one in question but I think this one might:

Publication:Dundee Courier
Publication date:Friday 28 June 1872

Article text:"THE BANKRUPTCY OF WILLIAM TAYLOR KEITH. Yesterday, Lord Mackenzie, officiating in the bills, the following interlocutor on the petition at the instance of William Taylor Keith, of the firm Robertson & Co., booksellers and stationers, Leith" It basically goes on to state that his petition for bankruptcy was rejected.
.......................................................................................................................

and

Headline: SCOTCH BANKRUPTS.
Publication:Dunfermline Press
Publication date:Wednesday 25 February 1863

Article text:SEQUESTRATIONS.
JAMES DUNCAN, bookseller, Falkirk.
JOHN MACKINTOSH, shipowner and coal merchant, Lyou's Court, Inverness. WILLIAM TAYLOR, KEITH, bookseller and merchant, Aberdeen.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 22 Dec 2013 12:03

There are over 100 articles and they are all about the same man - mostly along the lines of those above (which may be why he went to London for a while). He is usually described as "bookseller and merchant".

When he wasn't being sued he was suing others - there is a very long article in the Glasgow Herald of 26 July 1877, he had previously tried to sue that newspaper and they were getting their own back. They describe some of his business practices and mention that one of his companies was "Miller, Keith & Co", also known as "H & J Miller"

It describes how there was a young woman, one of his customers, whom he wished to befriend and he advertised for a woman assistant (it's assumed that the same woman got the position) and Keith suggested she use the name Miller (is that Jane Christina?).

The article was written on the occasion of William Taylor Keith being sent to prison (he served a few months for financial matters) and the paper certainly had an axe to grind. They say "he might have lived fat and supported his housekeeper and interesting family for years out of threatened newspaper prosecutions". The "housekeeper" is elsewhere referred to as "J".

(Will send article to Keith if he requires it, have sent pm)