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Searching for Charles Lamb

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Bryn

Bryn Report 24 Jan 2014 19:19

Searching for Charles Lamb, possibly anglicised name. Believe he was either Italian or Spanish. A man of means married with at least 6 children of which 2 sons died during WW2. He also fathered 2 daughters with my wife's Great Grandmother who could have been a servant. Lived in Bolton, died young around age 40 of stomach cancer around 1935. No record on census or death record presumably under him real name. Any help would be welcome.

PricklyHolly

PricklyHolly Report 24 Jan 2014 19:29

Hi Bryn and welcome to the boards...

Perhaps you could give us the details of your wife's Grt Grandmother and we can go from there.....

Prickles.

BeverleyW

BeverleyW Report 24 Jan 2014 20:21

Did he die in Bolton? I can't see a death record for a youngish Charles Lamb between 1930 and 1940 in Lancashire.

patchem

patchem Report 24 Jan 2014 21:17

I had hopes for this one, but too old and wrong area:
Carlo E E Agnellino
Birth Date: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Jun 1939
Age at Death: 64
Registration District: Lambeth
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1d
Page: 225

(Agnellino means baby lamb, at a guess)

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 25 Jan 2014 00:10

There is this one who died in Lancashire aged 41 but later than you thought:-


Name: LAMB, Charles E
Registration district: Bootle (Lancashire)
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1942
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at death: 41
Volume no: 8B
Page no: 259

or this one if using a middle name :-


Name: LAMB, Robert C
Registration district: Lunesdale
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1939
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 45
Volume no: 8E
Page no: 1686

Kath. x

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 07:06

This might be the birth for Kathleen's Bootle death:

Births Dec 1900
Lamb Charles Edward Ormskirk 8b 843

and this for the Lunesdale death:

Births Mar 1895
Lamb Robert Cross Lunesdale 8e 817

Do you believe (family story?) that your Charles was born in Italy/Spain and arrived in this country as a young man or already married with a family?

Have you looked for the names of the 2 sons who died in WW2 on any war memorials in Bolton?

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 25 Jan 2014 12:02

I'll let Bryn know that he has replies to his query. :-)

Bryn

Bryn Report 25 Jan 2014 12:39

Thank you every one I know this is a toughy!! I have looked at all Charles Lamb's that died around 1935. My gran apparently saw him just before he died and she was primary school age at the time born 1925. We believe he emigrated to the UK not born here, he married a woman here and I surmise this must have been around 1915 to 1920 they had 6 children, I don't have much info on them but I don't know how to search for Lambs who died during the war who were born in Bolton. Grandmas mum was in service in his household we think. I have so little to go on, my only thought is that he retained his original name for official stuff like census. I looked for 6 Lambs with mother maiden name the same but only found English fathers. I wish gran was still here to ask!!

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 25 Jan 2014 13:22

Looking on CWGC there were 278 men with the surname Lamb who died during WW2, it would just be a case of plodding through all of them to find two who could be brothers (there are probably a few who can be quickly eliminated by the service they were in, e.g. Canadian Air Force).

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

Of course, if the father was only known as Charles Lamb then the brother's deaths could be recorded in their actual surname.

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2014 14:18

I was doing the same thing as MarieCeleste when I woke up but I had not had my coffee and I forgot to submit it :-)


a very lot of men named Lamb died in WWII ... it is always striking to see things like that ...

but searching with Charles as a keyword finds only one whose father was Charles (not as a middle name)

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2117012/LAMB,%20JOHN%20JOSEPH

John Joseph son of Charles and Margaret Lamb of Blackburn, Lancashire,
was in the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers, aged 35, died 7 Aug 1942
so born c1907, meaning his father would have been born not much later than 1885

if a man was married his wife's name would be given rather than parents', and for many men no personal info is listed

some more info would indeed be useful if not essential ... if we had the names of the men who died we could see whether parents were named on the cwgc record


patchem your Carlo had a son Charles

1911 census in Lambeth per Ancestry

Carlo Agnellins 37 waiter born Naples
Alice Agnellins 34
> Charles Agnellins 8
Margerita Agnellins 3
Ernest Agnellins 0
Frances Cheal 35

Marriages Dec 1925
Agnellino Charles W Hunt Lambeth 1d 476
Hunt Rose M Agnellino Lambeth 1d 476

there are many Lamb-Hunt births but none seem to match that one particularly

Births Sep 1902
Agnellino Charles W L Marylebone 1a 532

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 14:34

JoonieCloonie,
I was just trying out Carl* and Italian or Spanish for Lamb and other combinations using a terrible latin pronunciation, and that was the best I could find.
But the family seemed rather too attached to Lambeth when I looked further.
Just put up the name for interest.

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2014 14:41

I'm definitely agreeing with you patchem - that is the obvious choice for a name Anglicized to Lamb, and while Carlo was too old to fit the bill, his son Charles does the job pretty well !

except yes, not for the location maybe ...

-edit- and never mind, Charles Walter L Agnellino born 1902 died 1989 in Merton Surrey


I imagine Bryn doesn't have more info unfortunately ... like my relation who was a housemaid before the turn of the century and had a child whose father is believed to have been the master of the house where she worked, and all we know is his surname ...

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 15:12

If he was 'a man of means' then obituary in local newspaper?

Flip

Flip Report 25 Jan 2014 15:58

Bryn, are you able or willing to give the birth details of you gran and her sister? It's just that parish records for christenings sometimes contain more info - like the alleged father.

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2014 16:07

as Flip says - at least knowing year and location of birth would help



the only Lamb listings in the telephone directory for 1925-1935 in Bolton are
H Lamb 1927
M lamb 1927
Inn Lamb ? 1925 1930


for Lamb births in Bolton 1915-1935 there are (picking the largest groups)

3 mother's surname Wood (1916-1928)
4 mother's surname Twist (1917-1927)
4 mother's surname Wood (1925-1933)

father not Charles in any case


the telephone directory shows a Mrs C Lamb in Altrincham ('Green end Hawley dr H') in the early 1930s, not a world away from Bolton, I wondered whether that could be his widow ... from Google street view Hawley Dr seems a bit of a spiffy address. In 1930 the address belonged to F C Lamb ...


Bryn I tried searching CWGC for Lambs with the keyword 'bolton', which would find men whose parents or wives are shown and who resided in Bolton, but no results

(Altrincham found one result but the parents of Richard were Alfred and Ellen)


what if he were F... Charles Lamb and went by Charles, making him FC but his widow MrsC? ... Frederick C Lamb 1857 died 1928 Bucklow reg dist ... but there are two FC Lambs in the directories around then and a separate Mrs FC Lamb at the other address ...

FC Lamb was first and last listed at the Hawley Dr address in 1932, MrsC also listed there in 1932 and onward


Marriages Sep 1914
Hersch Muriel Lamb Chorlton 8c 1745
LAMB Frederick C Hersch Chorlton 8c 1745

Deaths Jun 1968
LAMB MURIEL 74 (c1892) BUCKLOW 10A 129

Deaths Jun 1934 ?
Lamb Charles 55 (c1879) Bucklow 8a 253

Lamb-Hirsch births
1918 Bucklow
1919 Bucklow
1923 Bucklow

this FC Lamb could have had more children by 1934 in a second marriage or relationship

there is a Frederick C Lamb marriage to Stocks in 1927 Liverpool and 2 children to that marriage 1929-1930
but Frederick Charles Lamb 1903 died 1999 in Liverpool

however ... there is a Lamb-Morris birth in Bolton 1931
which does not well with the pattern of births for Lamb-Morris marriages around the time (in Lanchester, Lancaster, Birmingham, Birkenhead)
and there are lots of Morris-Morris births in Bolton before 1931


just a theory :-D


btw the Frederick Charles Lamb from Staines Mdsx gave his occupation in his WWI service records, age 22, as groom, so he is not likely; his wife was Ada Annie Goodchild and their children were all born in Staines

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 16:18

If he was 'a man of means' why did he not have a telephone?

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2014 16:37

question for me ?

Telephone listings are by initial only

there are a gazillion telephone listings for C Lamb and variations (CA, CW, FC ...) in the general vicinity

in Bolton 1915-25 there are Lambs in Bolton - H and M

he might not have lived there for a long period, he might have had a flat there while family lived in the country ... (to have two children with a domestic servant is a little unusual, ordinarily the servant would have been let go after the first !)

Bryn

Bryn Report 25 Jan 2014 16:49

Thank you for all your help!! What I can tell you is my gran was adopted but her sister also by Charles was kept by grandmas birth family, they were full sister and he isn't detailed on either birth certificate. Gladys Dean Howarth (curious middle name) was born 16 Jun 1924 Bolton and Joan Howarth was born 29 August 1925 in Hope Hospital Salford Manchester. Their mother is Winifred Howarth born 1903 in Bolton. Charles was in business of some kind and it now turns out he had 7 kids with his wife. One of his sons was in the RAF and was shot down and killed.

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 18:27

I was looking for Charles Lamb in Bolton. Or even C Lamb.
If Winifred was in service locally that was where I was expecting the telephone.
If he was in business I was expecting that a telephone would be needed by now (1920's to 1930's).

If the information was known about the family some years after his death i.e. death of his children, then presumably they lived locally or somehow stayed in touch?

patchem

patchem Report 25 Jan 2014 18:33

Sorry, I missed out reading some of the information found above as I did not refresh the page.

I do not think Bucklow is really near Bolton - they are the opposite sides of Manchester.