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I'm searching for my g.g.grandfather's parents in Wigan. He was Peter Howarth b. 1819 in Wigan to John Howarth and Elizabeth. These names are on his bapt., at All Saint's church, Wigan. Also have Peter's marriage in 1841 again All Saints and gives father as John Howarth, warper. Have census 1841/51/61 etc for Peter and his wife Jane, no probs there.
I have some details from a census? for Elizabeth but not sure if it is 1841 or 1851.
She is age 55, no husband. At Swinley, Wigan.
Alice Howarth age 25
Ellen Howarth age 15
Thomas age 15
Israel Howarth age 6, who I presume is grandson?
I think her husband John had died by this time, so I checked bmd's/parish records and there are two deaths, 1836 before civil reg. and 1839. I don't want to send for the death cert until I'm absolutely sure. These deaths are also on the Wigan cemetery index, but no other details.

I've checked everywhere for a marriage of John to Elizabeth, all church records in Wigan, Familysearch, Ancestry and not finding anything. Hence no maiden name for her. I've had this family on hold for a while and am now trying to go again with them, any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Margaret.

Baptism: 3 May 1819 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Peter Howarth - 1 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 10 Feb
Abode: Wigan lane
Occupation: Warper
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1816 - 1819, Page 289, Entry 2308
Source: LDS Film 1885676

It was the 1841 you had found. The 'Born in County' column has not been filled in for anyone on this side of the page.

1841 census transcription details for: Buckley House End, Wigan
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 523
Book/Folio: 11/53
Page: 18
Reg. District: Wigan
Sub District: Wigan
Parish: Wigan
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough: Wigan
Address: Buckley House End, Wigan
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
HOWARTH, Elizh F 55 1786
HOWARTH, Alice F 25 1816
HOWARTH, Ellen F 15 1826
HOWARTH, Thos M 15 1826
HOWARTH, Israel M 8 1833

Thanks, yes, I have these details, there were 3 daughters as well, one being Alice on the census with Elizabeth.

I had an idea it was, but it was years ago and I hadn't written the date, just going off the age of Alice the dau.

This death looks pretty good. Same address.

Burial: 14 Jan 1829 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Howarth -
Age: 60
Abode: Wigan Lane
Cause of Death: Weakness
Buried by: J.Bromilow
Register: Burials 1824 - 1830, Page 244, Entry 1945
Source: LDS Film 1885701


and a possible son?

Burial: 13 May 1835 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Howarth - Son of John Howarth
Age: 5 Years
Abode: Wigan Lane
Cause of Death: Weakness
Buried by: H. O.Neill
Register: Burials 1834 - 1839, Page 22, Entry 170
Source: LDS Film 1885702


Possible birth for him.


Baptism: 2 Aug 1830 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Howarth - 3 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 10 Jul
Abode: Wigan lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 284, Entry 2268
Source: LDS Film 1885677


All from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk

Yes, that looks good to me also, I was looking ten yrs later, as I was guessing his age. I'll check that out no probs.

This is one of the ones you found which is also the same address.

Burial: 17 Apr 1839 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Howarth -
Age: 67 Years
Abode: Chapel Lane
Cause of Death: Decay
Buried by: Charles Bisset Curate
Register: Burials 1834 - 1839, Page 286, Entry 2284
Source: LDS Film 1885702


Could this be the John you are looking for and the one above is possibly his father??

This John in 1839 is the one I was thinking, due to ages of children on bapt, pity there are no other details such as informant of death. If John d. 1830 is son of my John and Elizabeth, then John snr was still alive. Why didn't he stick around for the 1841 census, too easy that. :-)

Baptism: 29 Apr 1821 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Ellen Howarth - 4 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 25 Apr
Abode: Wigan lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Benjn. Powell
Register: Baptisms 1819 - 1822, Page 184, Entry 1468
Source: LDS Film 1885676


Baptism: 13 Jul 1823 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Ellen Howarth - 4 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 29 Apr
Abode: Wigan Lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1825, Page 121, Entry 964
Source: LDS Film 1885677


Baptism: 26 Jun 1825 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Thomas Howarth - 2 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 12 Apr
Abode: Wigan Lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: G. Goodwill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1825 - 1827, Page 42, Entry 332
Source: LDS Film 1885677


Baptism: 1 Jan 1828 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Howarth - 6 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 14 Jul 1827
Abode: Wigan Lane
Occupation: Warpe [sic]
Baptised by: J. Bromilow Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 17, Entry 132
Source: LDS Film 1885677


Baptism: 2 Aug 1830 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
John Howarth - 3 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth
Born: 10 Jul
Abode: Wigan lane
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate
Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 284, Entry 2268
Source: LDS Film 1885677

Thank you for your help and info, will get all this into my records, sometimes an extra pair of eyes does the trick. I'm now wondering if John and Elizabeth did indeed get married as I'm not finding it.

Possible marriage for John & Elizabeth...

Marriage: 29 Oct 1811 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England
John Howarth - (X), Warper, Bachelor, Hindley Township
Betty Balderston - (X), Spinster, Hindley Township
Witness: Jno Percival; John Richardson
Married by Banns by: Geo. Henderick, Curate
Register: Marriages 1807 - 1812, Page 69, Entry 232
Source: LDS Film 93751

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Marriage: 23 May 1841 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Peter Howarth - (X), 22 Throstle Spinner Bachelor of Wigan Lane
Jane Rowlinson - (X), 22 Throstle Spinner Spinster of Wigan Lane
Groom's Father: John Howarth, Warper
Bride's Father: John Rowlinson, Weaver
Witness: John Baron; Alice Howarth, (X)
Married by Banns by: Charles Bisset Curate
Register: Marriages 1840 - 1842, Page 95, Entry 190
Source: LDS Film 1885694

1841 England Census Transcription
Street:GRAYSONS YARD
Parish:WIGAN
City:WIGAN
County:Lancashire
Country:ENGLAND
House Number:-
House Name:-
Registration District:WIGAN
Town:-
Record set:1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Archive Reference:HO107 Piece Number:523 Book:11 Folio:39 Page:22

THOMAS BARON 1816 25 Brush washer
ELLEN BARON 1821 20 Tents family
ANN BARON 1839 2
--------------
PETER HOWARTH 1821 20 Spinner
JANE HOWARTH 1821 20 Spinner
--------------
AGNES MCCANN 1826 15 Spinner
--------------
JNO ROWLINSON 1826 15 Spinner

Also living in Grayson's Yard (in other houses) are:
Piece Folio Page Full name
=============================
HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Mary 70 Winder
HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Mary(Jnr) 45 Weaver
HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Ellen 35 Weaver
HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Thomas 15 Winder factory
------------------------
HO107/523 11/38 21 HOWARTH, John 50 Warper
------------------------
HO107/523 11/38 21 TAYLOR, John 5
=============================
...
=============================
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Peter 40 Weaver
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, John 20 Maker up of Lard?
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Moses 15 Maker up of Lard?
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Aaron 10 Knitter
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Margaret 8
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Ellen 4
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Mary Ann 1
HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Ann 40 Winder
=============================

So sis Alice is one witness, and maybe that John Baron is the other - now John is possibly his cousin:

Births Mar 1840 (>99%)
Baron Mary Ann Wigan 21 828

would fit with John's sister, and using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1840
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
BARON Mary Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh HOWARTH WIG/6/177

I think John the Warper (at top of 1841 page opposite Peter) is Pete's dad.

Grayson's Yard 14, Freckleton Street
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/yards.php?opt=yards
[Freckleton Street runs between Wigan Lane and Swinley Lane, abt 200m S of the Infirmary, so also in Swinley]

Thank you Christina and mgnv for your input. I did originally thnk John age 50 the warper was Pete's dad but what threw me was Elizabeth being at a different address and I do also appreciate that in those days families did tend to do this. Mary 70 and family are Taylors which I have also researched. I thought I had Peter and Jane's marriage cert but can't find it, would the marriage entry online show father deceased as this doesn't. Peter's second marriage cert to Ellen Winstanley I have and this shows father John deceased but this was several yrs later.
Maybe the 1851 census for Elizabeth could hold more clues, I'm unsure.
I'll have a look at the bmd's for Mary Baron & Howarth, just needed fresh eyes on this to get going again. Cheers everyone, Margaret.

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ do normally transcribe "(deceased)" or whatever, if it's present.
However, I don't see that in any of the 500 entries (so 1000 parents) in Peter's 1840-1842 rego, so I guess it wasn't asked or recorded.
Actually, whatever they say is not 100% reliable in my experience.
Here's a bro & sis getting wed elsewhere in Wigan RD - since their dad's Richard, not Lazarus, I think one can conclude one of them's in error:

Marriage: 25 Aug 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs.
Robert Hill - 21, Collier, Bachelor, Heyes Square, higher Gullet, Aspull
Ellen Westhead - 21, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 2 Leigh's Yard, Hr. Gullet, Aspull
Groom's Father: Richard Hill, (decd.), Collier
Bride's Father: John Westhead, (decd), Collier
Witness: Emmanuel Seddon; Alice Hill, (X)
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 101, Entry 202
Source: LDS Film 1885720

Marriage: 13 Oct 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs.
Emmanuel Seddon - 20, Collier, Bachelor, 284 Chorley Road, Wingates, Westhoughton
Mary Jane Hill - 19, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 11 Lr. Gullet, Aspull
Groom's Father: Emmanuel Seddon, Collier
Bride's Father: Richard Hill, Collier
Witness: Thomas Westwell; Sarah Barstow
Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar
Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 102, Entry 203
Source: LDS Film 1885720

Thanks mgnv, yes, I've also found inconsistences, especially in the LDS records.
Loved the Lazarus bit.
I have checked my 1841 census image, and can't see how I missed the Baron family, obviously focussed too much inside the box, I can now try and tie them in.
Cheers M.