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Hi, does anyone have any information on the background of The Weston family from the Whitton, Twickenham area circa 1900.

The family lines I'm looking for are my grandparents, John Thomas Weston and Dorothy Eleanor Williams. His father was William Thomas Weston.
Dorothy was born in Ashford, Middlesex on 10th Aug 1900 - Her mother was Margaret Spencer)

They had four children :

Reginald Thomas 1922
Phyllis Dorothy May 1926
Hilda M E 1930 (Married Eric Derriman / Emigrated to Canada)
Dorothy Ellen 1936

Thanks for looking
Richard

Dorothy with her family in 1901

Name:: Dorothy E Williams
Age: 8 Months
Estimated birth year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Edward Williams
Mother: Maggie Williams
Birth Place: Ashford, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Ashford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
Town: Ashford
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Piece: 1171
Folio: 67
Page Number: 14
Household schedule number: 90
Household Members:
Name Age
Edward Williams 34
Maggie Williams 32
Edward Williams 11
Henry Williams 9
Marcha M Williams 6
John E Williams 4
Dorothy E Williams 8 Months

.
1911 and the children are with a Margaret Williams but I am not sure she is the same Margaret as their mother. Her birthplace is Londonderry.. It's very confusing because the children are noted as hers and she states married 20 years 12 children born 6 living 6 died before it has been crossed out.

Name: Dorothy Williams
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sunbury
Civil Parish: Twickenham
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: 22 Hamilton Road, Twickenham
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Brentford
Registration District Number: 128
Sub-registration district: Twickenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Household schedule number: 153
Piece: 6851
Household Members:
Name Age
Margaret Williams 35
Edward Williams 20
May Williams 17
Dorothy Williams 10
Florence Williams 8

This could be their marriage in Ireland

Name: Maggie Agnes Jane Spenser
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1890
Event Place: Londonderry, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1890
Registration District: Londonderry
Age:
Birth Year (Estimated):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 195
GS Film number: 101256
Digital Folder Number: 004179388
Image Number: 00195

Name: Edward Williams
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1890
Event Place: Londonderry, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1890
Registration District: Londonderry
Age:
Birth Year (Estimated):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 195
GS Film number: 101256
Digital Folder Number: 004179388
Image Number: 00198

How old was John when he married?

Can't look for him till we know...............plus, some idea of his birthplace

What was his father's occupation?

Thanks Astra and Reggie for the replies on Weston/Spencer....

At first I looked at Margaret Spencer of Londonderry because it was suggested in the family that there was an Irish link on my grandmothers side although I can't be certain that is correct. Dorothy Eleanor's info on her birth certificate is in Ashford, Middlesex on Aug 10th 1900 with her father as Edward Williams (general labourer) and Margaret Williams formerly Spencer as her mother also living in Ashford. Dorothy is also appearing with this information on other trees with Edward Williams coming from Rotherhithe. Dorothy did have a sister called May but again I'm not certain if it was her first given name.

As for John Thomas Weston and Dorothy Eleanor Williams wedding, it appears that they did not marry until years after their children were born, 1959 I think. They can be found in 1926 living at 69 Holly Road , Twickenham and then from the 1930's to 1980's at 53 Longford Road, Twickenham. His father William Thomas is listed as a builder on my mother's (Dorothy Ellen Weston) birth certificate in August 1936 with her birthplace being 30 Twickenham Road, Isleworth.

Thanks again for your help
Richard

How could a grandfather be named on a birth cert?

Was the late marriage due to a previous one having still been in force when they had their children?

You need a copy of the marriage cert.......................

Marriages Sep 1959 (>99%)

WESTON John T WILLIAMS Middlesex S. 5f 203
WILLIAMS Dorothy E WESTON Middlesex S. 5f 203

I am wondering about these baptism's.........although Edwards occupation seems to vary!

Henry's place of birth on the 1901 census is Richmond Surrey.


Surrey, England, Baptisms, 1813-1912
about Henry Williams Name:Henry Williams
Birth Date:29 Apr 1892
Baptism Date:10 Jul 1892
Archive Provided Parish:Richmond, St John
Parish as it Appears:Richmond, St John the Divine
Father:Edward Williams (Engineer) 15 St Johns Place
Mother:Maggie Williams

"Marcha" M was born Shepperton


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Martha May Williams Name:Martha May Williams
Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:2 Aug 1895
Father's Name:Edward Williams (Blacksmith) The Rope Walk Shepperton
Mother's name:Maggie Agnes Jane Williams
Parish or Poor Law Union:Shepperton
County:Surrey

Edward was born in Rotherhithe


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Edward Williams Name:Edward Williams
Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:5 Nov 1890
Father's Name:Edward Williams (Soldier) 4 Prospect Place Rotherhithe
Mother's name:Marie Agnes Jane Williams
Parish or Poor Law Union:
Rotherhithe Christ Church
Borough:Southwark
Register Type:Parish Registers

There is an Edward at an Army Barracks in 1891.......

The problem is....it states he is Single!

1891 England Census about Edward Williams
Name:Edward Williams
Age:24
Estimated birth year:abt 1867
Relation:Private
Gender:Male
Where born:Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Civil Parish:St Thomas
Ecclesiastical parish:St Thomas
County/Island:Hampshire
Country:England
Registration district:Winchester
Sub-registration district:Winchester
ED, institution, or vessel:The Barracks

Edward Williams 24 Private.

Perhaps Edward and Maggie were not married?

Edit: I see Astra has added the marriage which took place in 1890.

I am struggling to find Maggie and son Edward on the 1891 census.

Good point Reggie, My mistake...My mother told me her grandfather's name was William Thomas (builder) and on her birth cert John is listed as a coal porter.

You may be onto something about the wedding delay, Dorothy is always listed as Weston throughout rather than Williams but I know that she may have already been spoken for when she met John.

Thanks for that , I'll try and get a copy

Richard

Order it from......................

http://www.gro.gov.uk/GRO/content/certificates/default.asp

It will cost £9.25

Any previous marriage would surely have been for Weston.............she married him in her maiden name

You probably have this.....................

England & Wales deaths 1837-2007 Transcription
First Name PHYLLIS DOROTHY M
Last Name WESTON
Year 1985
Event Quarter 1
Month of Registration 2
Year Of Birth 1926
Birth Month 7
Birth Day 10
District HOUNSLOW
County Middlesex
Country England
Volume 13
Page 1462
Record set England & Wales deaths 1837-2007

Edwards death.....

??


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Edward Williams Name:Edward Williams
Estimated birth year:abt 1867
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1905
Age at Death:38
Registration district:Brentford
Inferred County:Middlesex
Volume:3a
Page:49

Son John in 1911??

It's a Dr Barnado's Home....


1911 Channel Islands Census
about John Williams Name:John Williams
Age in 1911:13
Estimated birth year:abt 1898
Relation to Head:Inmate Of Home (Inmate)
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Shepperton, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish:Grouville
County/Island:Jersey
Country:Channel Islands
Occupation:School
Registration district:Jersey
Registration District Number:637
Sub-registration district:Grouville
ED, institution, or vessel:1/1
Piece:34953

Thanks Astra & PricklyHolly,

The Londonderry route could be correct and maybe Edward was posted over there The 1911 census has Margaret married for 20 years, widowed and a visitor.
The marriage dates of 1890 make sense in Londonderry as do the childrens ages.
I suppose Edwards year of death would also help to match them up.

Info I'm getting from other members trees is that Edward's parents were Edward Williams 1836 and Ellen James 1836.

Thanks
Richard

According to his Military Record which is on Find my past Edward's father was also Edward of 34 Prospect Place Rotherhithe. He also had a sister Ellen. There are no details of his marriage but he was discharged in 1896.

Don't rely on info in other trees unless they provide details of documentary backup for their 'facts'...or you check them yourself

Thanks again Astra, I'm waiting on some documents on the Williams side that might confirm your info.

An yes Reggie, I'm going back to my confirmed beginnings again and will proceed with documentation only, what's the best way to obtain Irish birth/marriage/death certs.

That info is on your other thread............

Thanks again Astra & PricklyHolly, your info is starting to take shape.....

I have the marriage cert for Edward Williams and Maggie Agnes Jane Spencer registered in Londonderry on 09th Jan 1890. It does show his profession as 2nd Kings Rifles and hers as a Dressmaker. He was at Ebrington Barracks, Londonderry and she was at 49 Clooney Terrace, Londonderry. They are listed as 22 & 21 years of age ... The puzzling thing is their Father's names, Edward's is Edward Williams - Engineer and Margaret's is Henry McNulty - Labourer ? The witnesses are William McNulty and what looks like Lynne Doherty.

I can't find the Channel Islands census for John and the Dr Bernados info that you mentioned , it seems to match but wonder why he would be there in 1911 and not on the 1911 census with his mother and siblings? That census matches by names but not by Margaret's age. The other thing I don't understand on that one is that it has Monthly Nurse listed under her profession, would you think that means profession or treatment ?

Thanks
Richard

Hi Richard
Monthly Nurse would be her profession. It was a woman who went to look after new mothers for the first few weeks after giving birth. She may also have been called upon to lay out the dead.

Thanks Astra, that's very interesting.....so maybe this is a different person in the household without mother and father present. If Margaret Williams is listed as a visitor from Londonderry could this mean that a family member or maybe an unrelated / coincidental person is looking after the household and the children at that time as her age does not match the 1901 census of Maggie Williams.

Hi Richard
If I remember correctly she is only listed as visitor in the Country of birth column. It asks whether resident in England or visitor and someone has added Visitor. It appears to be in a different hand writing to the rest of the completed form. Maybe she was thinking of returning to Ireland after the death of her husband. The children are listed as hers and she states the number of years married etc. so I feel sure that this is her. Her age is completely wrong but she may have lied.