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Im finding some confusion looking at the census for My great great grandad Robert Foxwell.

He appears in 1861 as 7 years old then in 1881 he is 23? and living next door to Catherine Read who has 4 children and William Soper who I believe to be her father living there.
The children are Ruth 9, Beatrice 4, Clara 1, and Richard 14.
Then in 1891 Robert is 37 , he as married Catherine, they live with the father and they have 2 more children Annie 7 and Kate 6.
But then in 1901 her name is recorded as Kathleen, all the children and the father of (Catherine/Kathleen), William, are gone. My great grandad Alfred is there age 8. The father obviously died because he was 82 in 1891 but Im not sure where Kate went because she would only be 15 and Kathleen is now Catherine again?
Then in 1911 Robert is 57 and still with Catherine and Alfred. Im thinking perhaps Roberts 1881 age is a mistake and he is actually 27?
I thought perhaps Catherine Soper/Read was previously married and widowed to read but I could find no such marriage. I searched and found perhaps her birth at 1848. Then a I found only 4 possible marriages between 62 and 70.
Then I came across something odd - in Sep 1864 when she was 16 Catherine Soper married George Soper!! 3a/870

Did she marry her cousin? Where does Read come into it?

First ...............

Have you looked at the images of the census, not just at the transcription record?

It is quite possible for the transcriber to have made an error.


Second ...... are you sure you have the same person each time?

Do you not already have a thread on these people where he;pers have explained the variations in names?????????

The answer to your age conundrum on the 1881 is very simple .....

........... he was the lodger, someone else filled in the form or gave the information to the census taker, and they DID NOT KNOW how old he really was

Things are NOT cut and dried in this hobby, you have to make allowances for mistakes and errors, and name changes, etc etc

I also just found the census from 1871 and there is a Catherine Soper 26 and living with a Catherine read aged 78?? This makes no sense at all.

You need to look at the actual census page for its info

Catherine Soper aged 26 and an Elizabeth Mullins aged 72 are both put at lodgers of Catherine Read

1871 census
Name: Catherine Read
Age: 78
Estimated birth year: abt 1793
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 642
Folio: 96
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Read 78
Elizabeth Mullins 72
Catherine Soper 26

And by clicking on her name it brings this up
Catherine Soper
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Lodger. >>>>>>>>>
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 65
Piece: 642
Folio: 96
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age

Their parish copy of the marrige is on Ancetsry

Robert Foxwell
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Age: 39
Spouse: Catherine Soper
Spouse Age: 42
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Oct 1892
Parish: All Saints, Walworth
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Foxwell deceased occ fruit salesman
Spouse Father: William Lemon Soper. Occ tailor
Register Type: Parish Register
He is a batchelor and she is a spinster. Both give their address as 47 Camden street

So they weren't married on the 1891 census but did marry the next year

1861 census
Name: Catherin Soper
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: 1849
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Soper
Mother's name: Ann Soper
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: St Giles without Cripplegate
Ecclesiastical parish: St Giles without Cripplegate
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:



View image
Registration district: East London
Sub-registration district: Cripplegate
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 245
Piece: 213
Folio: 141
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
William Soper 52 occ tailor >>>>>>>
Ann Soper 38
George Soper 18
Ann Soper 14
Catherin Soper 12
Mary Ann Soper 11
Clara Soper 5
Henry Soper 3
John Soper 1

1871 census

Name: William Soaper
[William Soper]
Age: 62
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Soaper
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Household schedule number: 213
Piece: 637
Folio: 25

Address 7 Blue Anchor Lane
Page Number: 44
Household Members:
Name Age
William Soaper 62
Ann Soaper 48
Ann Soaper 21
Clara Soaper 16
Henry Soaper 14
John Soaper 11
Richard Soaper 4
Ann Sullivan 24. Daughter. Widowed occ tailoress
William Sullivan 5 grandson
Rosena Sullivan 9 Months grandaughter

His marriage


Name: Ann Degenhart Read
Spouse: William Lemon Soper
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Sep 1845
Parish: St Matthew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Degenhart Read
Spouse Father: William Soper
Register Type: Parish Register

So who are the two different Catherine Reads? One in 1881 age 32 and one 10 years prior aged 78 who a Catherine Soper aged 36 lodges with. So confused right now.

They are all living at the same address in 1881

Record Image VIEW
View blank form
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: William Soper
Age: 72
Estimated birth year: abt 1809
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: London City of, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 48 Parfitt Rd
Marital Status: Widower
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Tailor
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 579
Folio: 114
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
William Soper 72
Richard Soper 14

Catherine Read
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 48 Parfitt Rd
Marital Status: Widow
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Waistcoat Maker
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 579
Folio: 114
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Read 32. Widow !!!!
Ruth Read 9
Beatrice Read 4
Clara Read 1

Record Image VIEW
View blank form
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Robert Foxwell
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Rotherhithe, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 48 Parfitt Rd
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Lighterman
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 579
Folio: 114
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Jackson 50
Ann Jackson 34
Rosa Jackson 10
Robert Foxwell 23


So Catherine may have been using her mums maiden name to cover she wasn't married

Edit. This could be the birth for Clara


Name: Clara Ann Read
Registration Year: 1879
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 315

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1124644

(somebody else researching?, might be worth a check in 'Search All member Trees' (top right of page here under 'Search')

Chris :)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/trying_to_find/thread/1105519

(your previous one)

Name: Ann Digerhant Read
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jan 1823
Father's name: William Read
Mother's name: Catherine Read
Parish or Poor Law Union: Shoreditch St Leonard
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers
Born 26 Dec 1822


Soooo the Catherine Read of the 1871 census could be the grandmother

What about the marriage of Catherine Soper and George Soper in 1874? 3a/870 Whats that about? Are they incest?

Not finding that marriage can you post it please

Bear in mind too that at that time there were several couples to one page so unless you find them on later census you can't say who married who . You have to buy the cert naming one person to see who the spouse was

It was in 1864 Shirley not 1874 !!

Marriages Sep 1864 (>99%)
Bennett Henry Robert Oxford 3a 870 Scan available - click to view
Carr Caroline Oxford 3a 870 Scan available - click to view
Soper Catherine Oxford 3a 870 Scan available - click to view
Soper George Oxford 3a 870 Scan available - click to view

Dea x

So is Catherine Soper who marries Robert Foxwell not the child of ann and william read?

Name
Events
Relationships Preview
Ann Degenhart Read
England Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage:
30 September 1845 Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green, London, England
father:
William Degenhart Read
spouse:
William Lemon Soper
other:
William Soper
Ann Digerhart Read
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
birth:
26 December 1822
christening:
16 January 1823 SAINT LEONARDS, SHOREDITCH, LONDON, ENGLAND
father:
William Read
mother:
Catherine

No she is the daughter of Ann Degenhurt Read and William lemon Soper

AND that 1864 marriage is nothing to do with the family. As you can see that marriage was in Oxfordshire . The family you are looking at live in the London area

is this is the Robert foxwell in the 1861 census


Births Sep 1853 (>99%)

FOXWELL Robert Bermondsey 1d 61

Robert in 1901

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Robert Foxwell

England and Wales Census, 1901

Name Robert Foxwell
Event Type Census
Event Date 31 Mar 1901
Event Place St Paul Deptford, London, Middlesex, England
County London, Middlesex
Civil Parish St Paul Deptford
Ecclesiastical Parish St Lukes
Sub-District Deptford North
Registration District Greenwich
Residence Note Trundley Road
Gender Male
Age 48
Occupation LIGHTERMAN S C DOCKS
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1853
Birthplace Bermondsey, London
Schedule Type 287
Page Number 41



Household

Role

Gender

Age

Birthplace

Robert Foxwell Head M 48 Bermondsey, London
Kathleen Foxwell Wife F 50 Bermondsey, London
Alfred G Foxwell Son M 8 Deptford, London