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This is for Susan who mistakenly added her Winders family to mine at the wrong point as their are some similar names

After taking her tree apart I want to help her rebuild it.

This is her family

1911 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, Ellen
Address: 17 Thompson St St Helens
WINDERS, William Head Married M 42 1869 Coal Miner Coalgetter St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Ellen Wife Married
23 years F 41 1870 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Margaret Daughter Single F 22 1889 Charwoman St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Jessie Daughter Single F 19 1892 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, William Son Single M 17 1894 Coal Miner Pony Driver Underground St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Herbert Son M 12 1899 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Harold Son M 10 1901 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Ernest Son M 7 1904 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Elsie Daughter F 5 1906 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Norman Son M 3 1908 St Helens Parish Lancs
WINDERS, Ellen Daughter F 6 1905 St Helens Parish Lancs

1901 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, Ellen
Address: 35, Sidney Street, St Helens
WINDERS, William Head Married M 30 1871 Coal Miner (Getter)
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Ellen Wife Married F 30 1871
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Margaret Daughter Single F 12 1889
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Jessie Daughter Single F 9 1892
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, William Son Single M 7 1894
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Herbert Son Single M 2 1899
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Arnold Son Single M 0 (10W) 1901

1891 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, Ellen
Address: 19, Grafton Street, Eccleston, St Helens
WINDERS, William Head Married M 23 1868 Coal Miner
Manchester
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Ellen Wife Married F 22 1869
Ashton
Lancashire VIEW
WINDERS, Margaret Daughter Single F 2 1889
St Helens
Lancashire

Marriages Sep 1887
Taylor Ellen Prescot 8b 974
WINDERS William Prescot 8b 974



1878 Eccleston Lancashire Marriage: 22 Aug 1887 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England William Winders - (X), 19 Miner Bachelor of Parr Ellen Taylor - 19 Spinster of Parr Groom's Father: John Winders, Glass Maker Bride's Father: Thomas Smith, Labourer Witness: William Johnson; Mary Taylor, (X) Married by Banns by: A. A. Nunn Register: Marriages 1879 - 1894, Page 116, Entry 231 Source: LDS Film 1849640

Could be this birth? Births Mar 1865 (>99%) WINDERS William Prescot 8B 617 No this is the William who married Barbara.

I have found bmd for the children but cannot find William with father john who is a glass splitter.
There is one who is a collier but some else has them in their tree attached differently.
Ellen Taylor daughter of Thomas Smith has yet to be sorted too.

This is my my Winders family by the way.

Births Sep 1868 (>99%)
WINDERS John William Prescott 8b 632


1871 Address: Robin's Lane, Sutton, St Helen
WINDERS, William Head M 27 Lancashire
WINDERS, Alice Wife F 22 Lancashire
WINDERS, John William Son M 2 Lancashire
WINDERS, Alice Daughter F 1 Lancashire

1881 bricklayer
1881 79 Oakland Street Widnes
WINDERS, William Head Married M 37 1844 Bricklayer
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Alice Wife Married F 32 1849
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, John William Son Single M 12 1869 Scholar
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Alice Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar
St Helens
Lancashire
WINDERS, Frances Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, Jessie Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, Blanche Daughter Single F 0 1881
Widnes
Lancashire

1890 Living at 16 Chester Street Widnes
Marriages Jun 1890 (>99%)
Hall Ann Prescot 8b 1105
HALL Annie Prescot 8b 1105
WINDERS John William Prescot 8b 1105



1891 living at 102 Dickson Street
WINDERS, John Wm Head Married M 22 1869 Bricklayer
Salton
Lancashire
WINDERS, Ann Wife Married F 21 1870
Macclesfield
Cheshire
WINDERS, Alice Daughter F 0 (8M) 1891
Widnes
Lancashire


1901 Address: 102, Dickson Street, Widnes, Town
WINDERS, John Wm Head Married M 32 1869 Bricklayer
Sutton
Lancashire
WINDERS, Annie Wife Married F 31 1870
Macclesfield
Cheshire
WINDERS, Alice Daughter F 10 1891
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, Annie Daughter F 7 1894
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, John Wm Son M 5 1896
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, Herbert Son M 1 1900
Widnes
Lancashire
WINDERS, Annie Visitor F 11 1890
Widnes
Lancashire


1905 brick setter
Marriage witnessed E Hall & Emily ?Olaves

1911 census - household transcription
Person: WINDERS, John William
Address: 57 Princes Street Widnes
WINDERS, John William Head Married M 42 1869 Bricklayer St Helens Lancs
WINDERS, Ann Wife Married
21 years F 41 1870 Macclesfield Ches
WINDERS, John William Son Single M 15 1896 Junior Clerk Widnes Lancs
WINDERS, Herbert Son M 11 1900 School Widnes Lancs
WINDERS, Agnes Daughter F 9 1902 Widnes Lancs
WINDERS, George Son M 5 1906 Widnes Lancs
WINDERS, Doris Daughter F 4 1907 Widnes Lancs


died 14/12/1918 buried Farnworth cemetry

nudge for morning please. It is the seond time she has done this and she has put out lots od mis information on various sites.

Please could someone with ancestry look at this

nudge

Anyone able to give this a shot with a fresh pair of eyes?

Can't you contact Susan yourself? If she has a tree on Ancestry there's a way to contact her.

Oh dear
you have misunderstood.

I have my tree fully researched with certificates and census references.
I have John William Winders 1868 and know all about him.

My problem is that Susan is researching William Winders 1869.There are similar names in her family so she keeps on attaching my family to hers, She has got herself into such a muddle. She has given me access to her tree to amend it but a few months later it is all back. On speaking to other researchers I have found she has done the same thing. I think she is interested but has no research skills. She has given me permission to help her. I think she is probably related to me but at an earlier point. I have studied all the records I have available but I do not have Ancestry. I would like someone to have a look at them for me. Thankyou.

This is the marriage registration, which corresponds to Ladykiras' marriage information;

Marriages Sep 1887
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIBBY Robert Prescot 8b 974
Marsh Mary Ann Prescot 8b 974
Taylor Ellen Prescot 8b 974
WINDERS William Prescot 8b 974
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the 1871 & 81 censuses. There is no corresponding William with the 1890 to1911 birth yrs of 1868 to 1871 in St Helens area & father John.

But in there is for William, correct location & father showing him born c1865;

1881 Census

Name: William Winders
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston in Prescot
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Kiln Houses
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 46.............b1835.......occupation Coal Miner
Elizabeth Winders 36......b1845... Wife
William Winders 16.........b1865.....Son...occupation Coal Miner
Mary E. Winders 10...........b1881....Daughter.......Scholar
Elizabeth Winders 6.........b1875.....Daughter......Scholar
John Winders 3.................b1878.....Son

All shown as born in Eccleston

Here's the family in the 1871 census. Note discrepancy in age shown of both parents;

Name: John Winders
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: Eccleston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 153.......Address Ecclestone Lane Ends, no house No shown.
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 30.....
Elizabeth Winders 30.........b1841....Wife
William Winders 6..............b1865....Son....Scholar
Anna Winders 4...................b1867....Daughter
Elizabeth Winders 2............b1869....Daughter

This is John & Elizabeth Winders in the 1891 census;

Name: John Winders
Age: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:.................52 Eccleston St
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Winders 50...........Head... b1841 St Helen.......Occupation Coal Miner
Elizabeth Winders 46 ...Wife.....b1845.....Eccleston
Annie Winders 24 ...........Daughter b 1867.. Eccleston. (Transcription error of surname.....should be Houghton & shown as married)
Elizabeth Winders 16.....Daughter b 1875 Eccleston
John Winders 13............Son.....b 1878.. Eccleston ....Occupation Splitter in Glasshouse.
Mary E Winders 3...........Grand daughter b 1888..St Helens....(I assume Annies daughter)

Hi Stevie

That would be the correct marriage for Susan's William. she has the certificate. Ellen is another story because her father is Smith I think I sent her the correct family once but she has built a a tree around her that does not make sense, But for now I want to concentrate on the Winders side. I came up with the same family as you but that would make another Winders tree wrong so I would like something definite before I broach that one.

Here are the Winders births for William around 1869. Yours is the first one LK. I have removed any whose name was not William Winders. I agree with the thought that the birth in Mar 1865 is the most probable.

However, all are correctly named and all could be the other William. Some we may delete because of the location.





Name: William Winders
Birth: Jan Feb Mar 1917 - Prescot, Lancashire



Name: William Winders
Birth: Jun 1866 - Bury, Greater Manchester, Lancashire



Name: William Winders
Birth: Jun 1872 - Preston, Lancashire


Name: William Winders
Birth: Mar 1865 - Prescot, Lancashire


Name: William Joseph Winders
Birth: Mar 1874 - Preston, Lancashire


Name: William Winders
Birth: Sep 1868 - Burton Upon Trent, Derbyshire, Staffordshire

Name: Jessie Winders
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 686 (click to see others on page)

Jessie daughter of William and Ellen.

Here is Jessie on the census 1901. The whole family have been mistranscribed as Windus. The correction has been placed on the transcription but there are no notes.

Name: Jessie Windus
[Jessie Winders]
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Jessie's birth

Name: Jessie Winders
Birth: Sep 1891 - Prescot, Lancashire

Possible deaths.

Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Prescot, Lancashire, England
Death: 1961


Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Worcester, Worcestershire, England
Death: 1963



Name: Jessie Winders
Death: Oldham, Lancashire, England
Death: 1935


Now marriages. There are no marriages for Jessie Winders before 1932. Well not with this lot anyway. There are three possibilities, however she is a bit old and it might not be her because the deaths show her as Jessie Winders.

Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Bold
Marriage: Jan-Feb-Mar 1932 - Prescot, Lancashire





Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Bradshaw
Marriage: Oct-Nov-Dec 1938 - Prescot, Lancashire



Name: Jessie Winders
Spouse: Farthing
Marriage: Oct-Nov-Dec 1957 - St Helens, Lancashire

.

The marriage between William Winders and Ellen Taylor is 8b 974 Prescott on the Free BDM. 3Q 1887

When you click on the "see others on page" they both come up.
Both are in the images.



There is this marriage index.

Name: Ellen Taylor
Year of Registration: 1887
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 951 (click to see others on page)

When you click on the page to see the others, there is no one except Ellen Taylor.

OK AS
Work today and I am going out for dinner tonight.

You know I will be back.

This is William Winders aged 16 coal miner. His father John is also a coal miner according to the image. So this is the one which is not relevant.

Name: William Winders
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Eccleston, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston in Prescot
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: Kiln Houses
Occupation: Coal Miner

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 14

John Winders 46
Elizabeth Winders 36
William Winders 16
Mary E. Winders 10
Elizabeth Winders 6
John Winders 3