Genealogy Chat

Hi RobG
I looked at the workhouse web page and found the pictures of Strand Union Childrens Establishment Edmonton. I have already seen the Brass Band picture, 1905, on the Extinct Brass Bands web page, but I was wondering whether you would be interested if I emailed you a picture of the brass band my grandfather played in. To date nobody has been able to identify the band, but I think it was a competition and that the buildings are of the residences of the Orphan Working School,Haverstock Hill, London the records of which I saw at the Surrey Arichives a couple of years ago. A search was made for my grandfather at that orphanage, but he wasn't an inmate there. On the back of this very valuable old photo is written by my grandfather, when he was very old, and much of the writing is illegible. What I could make out was This was a ....competitio"n in 1884 or 1885 I can't remember when. I nearest the bandmaster .......top hats.....on grand occasions.
There is an address stamped on the back, 122, Turnpike Lane, Hornsey, London, which I think is the photographer's address. To date nobody has been able to identify this band. If anybody else has an interest in trying to identify the band (the only photo of my grandfather during his youth"in England that I have), I will email it to them.
Sorry about the delay - bad thunderstorms here, so I had to disconnect my computer.
Thanks,
Granddaughter
South Africa.

Hi RobG
I looked at the workhouse web page and found the pictures of Strand Union Childrens Establishment Edmonton. I have already seen the Brass Band picture, 1905, on the Extinct Brass Bands web page, but I was wondering whether you would be interested if I emailed you a picture of the brass band my grandfather played in. To date nobody has been able to identify the band, but I think it was a competition and that the buildings are of the residences of the Orphan Working School,Haverstock Hill, London the records of which I saw at the Surrey Arichives a couple of years ago. A search was made for my grandfather at that orphanage, but he wasn't an inmate there. On the back of this very valuable old photo is written by my grandfather, when he was very old, and much of the writing is illegible. What I could make out was This was a ....competitio"n in 1884 or 1885 I can't remember when. I nearest the bandmaster .......top hats.....on grand occasions.
There is an address stamped on the back, 122, Turnpike Lane, Hornsey, London, which I think is the photographer's address. To date nobody has been able to identify this band. If anybody else has an interest in trying to identify the band (the only photo of my grandfather during his youth"in England that I have), I will email it to them.
Sorry about the delay - bad thunderstorms here, so I had to disconnect my computer.
Thanks,
Granddaughter
South Africa.

Hi Von,
I went onto the workhouses site and found the pictures of the Strand Union Brass Band of Edmonton dated 1905, which I had seen on the Brass Band site under Extinct Brass Bands. I have a picture of a brass band, which my grandfather Henry Bailey definitely played in, but I have been unable to have it identified by anybody. My grandfather wrote on the back of the phoograph, when he was about 84 years old with almost illegible writing, something to the effect "This was .....competition ......in 1884 or 1885, I forget when. ....I nearest Bandmaster -Tops Hats.....on grand occasions. I can just decipher the address printed on the back, which is 122 Hornpike Lane, Hornsey, London (presumably the address of the photographer). I don't know why there is an arrow pointing to a younger boy in the front row. My grandfather played the cornet, by the way. I also have two photos taken of him in Malta, 1898 and 1899, one in ordinary clothes and the other in the Royal Army Medical Corps dress uniform (according to a researcher at National Archives, Kew). These are the only two clues I have of his life in England, except for his army admission form, which stated he was 20 when he joined in 1893 and was born in Edmonton. (that was why I was thinking that he was in the Strand Union Establishment in Edmonton, but further research informed me that only children born in the London area, and not in Middlesex, were sent to Strand Union, Edmonton. His occupation on his army admission form was given as a Waiter. The only connection I could find similar to that occupation was in the 1891 Census, where a Harry Bailey lodged at 28 Burton St. St. Pancras, London and his age is given as 20 and his occupation is Kitchen Porter (dom) Where born: London Edmonton. (My grandmother used to call him Harry, but I still can't trace him with that name. Can anybody help?
I will gladly email the brass band photo (all boys in their uniforms) together with the almost illegible writing on the back, to anybody who could possibly help identify the uniforms or decipher the writing.
While in London last year I was told that the buildings were probably the houses that houses the children that lived there (The Orphan Working School, Haverstock Hill). I have personally been to the Archives in Surrey to search for the name Henry Bailey at The Orphan Working School, but he was not an inmate there. No doubt this band competition was held in their grounds. Henry Bailey first served in the RAMC at the Royal Victoria Hospital, Netley, was then sent to Malta and finally to South Africa for the duration of the Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902. He settled in South Africa after the war, sent for his fiance in Netley, who had waited for him all these years, and they married in Cape Town, South Africa on 16th October, 1903). My father Henry was their only son. My apologies for not having answered sooner
Sincerely
Granddaughter
South Africa.

Hi Rob,
Do you think I should email the LMA to ask whether they have admission records of the Strand Union Childrens Establishment, Edmonton. As I live in South Africa it would be a bit difficult to go there personally?

The reason I was asking if you had him in later yeras on the census is because there is this one also not with parents and age is closer.

1881 England Census
about Henry Bailey
Name: Henry Bailey
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Hammersmith, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Mortlake
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: 7 Eleanor Cottages
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Richmond
Sub registration district: Mortlake
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John W. Arnold 65
Sarah Arnold 64
Henry Bailey 10
William Bailey 3

Christine

This is going to be tricky to narrow down with a name like Henry Bailey. I assume your grandfather died, at least, 40 years ago. Did he say he didn't know the name of either of his parents? Any mention of a father on his marriage certificate? Do you know if he had any siblings? Did he emigrate to South Africa? If so, do you know when?

Have you seen this site?
http://workhouses.org/
Search on Strand Union and scroll down. There are articles about the Strand Union Workhouse and Strand Union School (Millfield Hse - I assume this is the one) - both in Edmonton, along with pictures.
The admission records of both are kept at the LMA, and if they are anything like the records for the Kensington Union that I have viewed at the LMA they may well give you some more Info.
Also, there is a link to a transciption of those in the Workhouse in 1881. There are some Baileys there. Not sure if it's relevent.

RobG

Have you got his details in later years? as that one is born quite a lot earlier than you thought.

Christine

This is the only birth for a Henry Bailey on FreeBMD in the London area in 1868/1869 where there isn't a middle name:-

Name: Henry Bailey
Year of Registration: 1868
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 249

Kath. x

Hi Christina,
I have been in contact with the Edmonton Archives but have been unable to get any further information from them. I also found out where records of Strand Union Establishments were kept in London but unfortunately they couldn't help me.
I have already visited London twice with regard to this research (for five weeks last year) but found out very little. I am now trying further on the internet - from South Africa!

Are you certain that this establishment is a workhouse? It looks more like a school to me.

Kath. x

The records may be at the London Metroplitan Archives, as this covers Middlesex.

RobG

Hi Louise,

I don't think they were born in Edmonton as I have been told (on a research visit to England last year) that all the children at the Strand Union Childrens Estatlishment came from the London area. There were no Edmonton born children in the Strand Union Establishment. That is why I am trying to find out how to trace the births of Henry and/or Rose in London workhouses. My grandfather always thought he had been born in London.
Granddaughter.

If there are any records still available for the Strand Union Childrens Establishment, Edmonton, they should be at the Enfield Archives. Tel: 020 8378 2724

If you call them they may be able to help.

I can't see a Henry or Rose being born 1869-1875 in Edmonton on the GRO at the moment

It's possible they were born at home - but after the death of their parents they moved into the workhouse

My grandfather, Henry Bailey, was born in Middlesex, but never found out who his parents were - he was orphaned at an early age and I think I might have found him in the 1881 Census as an inmate of the Strand Union Childrens Establishment, Edmonton, Middlesex. He always thought he was born in c1873 in London, but this 1881 Census entry gives his date of birth as 1869 (aged 12) but this might be incorrect. There is also a Rose Bailey, b. 1872, age 9, at the Strand Union Childrens Establishment, Edmonton. Would it be possible to search and find these two Bailey children having been born in Workhouses in Middlesex, probably London? Or otherwise any Henry Bailey born c.1873 in a Middlesex workhouse? I am very hopeful that I am getting closer to solving this mystery.
Thanks
Granddaughter