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Outside the box ideas? UPDATE page 7

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Janet 693215

Janet 693215 Report 11 May 2009 09:06

And the last Quantick/Allwinkle is born Yorkshire 'cos the mother was evacuated from Stepney.

Jooleh

Jooleh Report 11 May 2009 20:23

There is a marriage preceding those births.

Bethnal Green 1934 Sept qtr

So they do indeed look like Joseph's children

FannyByGaslight

FannyByGaslight Report 11 May 2009 22:39

Please take no notice of Mizzy.
She has got problems and has been reported many times for doing this to people,and yet GR do not terminate her account.

Sarah

Sarah Report 3 Jun 2012 19:29

I have been reading this post with interest. I believe the John Henry Wood, greengrocer, is my great grandfather! The information I have of him was that he was with an Alice May. The surname I was aware of was Moor and this was listed on their son Samuel Frederick Wood's (my grandfather) marriage certificate and the Moor surname was listed on his birth certficiate. The children that I was aware of were: John Henry Wood 1911, Samuel Frederick Wood 1912, Alice A Wood 1913, Robert H Wood 1915. Would be good to hear your views on this.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jun 2012 19:39

Hello Sarah, it's a good few years since there was any activity on this thread so people may not be checking back.

You could click on the name of the person who should you're aiming the information at and send them a direct message.

Sarah

Sarah Report 9 Jun 2012 10:07

Hello Sarah, I have just seen your private message from 3 June when I got an email notice about it. It has been a long time since I looked at genesreunited since I have not subscribed for nearly 3 years now (if you don't pay you can't post on the boards).

I would have to read that thread all over again carefully to 'remember' what it was about!

I do notice there are some other Wood-Moor births you may not be aware of -- if you search at FreeBMD

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

for births from 1911 to 1925, say, with surname Wood and mother's surname Moor you will see three others in Wandsworth after the last one you named. They may have died in infancy, especially since there was a twin birth. You can search for deaths for those names to see whether that was the case. Adding ... I see later in the thread now that Alice May Quantick had twin brothers.

There is no Wood + Moor marriage to match as you may have seen if you searched. There is also no likely looking John H Wood + Alice M marriage (if she had been married before and married Wood under a different surname).

............ So I have been reading through the thread, very interesting and it has taken a lot of time trying to 'remember' it all!

The upshot seems to be that Dolly Wood born 1918 ... her mother Alice May 'Wood' died immediately after the birth and her father John Henry Wood gave her up to the Rookes.

Dolly's father John Henry Wood was your gr-grfather. And Alice May her mother was your gr-grmother.

Presumably JHW had the older children to care for and could not care for a baby. I wonder whether the connection was that Lily Rooke the registrar knew the circumstances when JHW registered his wife's death and connected him with the Rookes. Ah I see I said that in the thread. ;)

Did Alice register the earlier births (including your grfather Samuel) and put her name as Moor, and JHW didn't know that? He knew her name was Quantick so he put that when he registered Dolly?

Alice had left Hagley by 1911 it seems. Maybe she was living with someone named Moor and using his surname when she met JHW.

In any case, it seems almost certain that Dolly is your grandfather's sister. And Sidney Hagley, Alice's one child by her first marriage, would be your grandfather's half-brother.

I think when MarieCeleste replied to your post she didn't realize what a big mystery this had been and how much people had enjoyed it. Very often people come along two or five years later and reply to old threads when the best way to make contact is by private message. But I think Janet whose thread it is should still be around. Did you make contact with her by private message?

As I said I can't post in your thread now ... but you may have just persuaded me to sign up again for some more fun! If you want to copy and paste this entire message from me into a post in the thread please do that. And that way I can say hello to Janet too. She should be able to put you in touch with the person she was doing this research for. Her friend's mother is Dolly, a granddaughter of John and Alice, and Dolly's daughter would be your parent's first cousin.

Also if you have more information about John Henry Wood like his date and place of birth and death, add that to the thread, because information about him could help find him in 1911. Since his and Alice's son John Henry was born after the 1911 census possibly John and Alice would be together in that census somewhere.

I hope you have made contact with Janet already, and I will be interested to hear, if you post a follow up in your thread!

best regards,

Evie B

Sarah

Sarah Report 9 Jun 2012 10:07

Me again :)

I am going to bet that these are John Henry Wood's grandparents in the 1911 census

Name: Henry Wood
Age in 1911: 73
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation to Head: Head
Birth Place: Ross, Hereford, England
Civil parish: Wandsworth
County/Island: London
>>> Street Address: 97 Felsham Road, Putney, London S W
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: GROCER and PROVISION DEALER
Registration district: Wandsworth
Henry Wood 73
Louisa Wood 74

Felsham Road and Stanbridge Road intersect. 7 Stanbridge Road is less than a block from Felsham Road, and 97 Felsham Road is two short blocks from that intersection.

This is the household in 1881 still living in Ross Herefordshire

Henry Wood 43 grocer and provision dealer
Louisa Wood 45
Wallace C. Wood 16
Allace Wood 12
Selena Wood 11
Hubert J. Wood 9
Frederick C. Wood 6
Florence M. Wood 4

I think it goes like this

Marriages Dec 1884
Huskie Agnes Elizabeth W Ham 4a 151
WOOD Henry John W. Ham 4a 151

they are together in 1891 and 1901 but in 1891 I think he was enumerated twice, once with Agnes and children and once with parents Henry and Louisa.

This would be Agnes's death

Deaths Jun 1919
Wood Agnes E 54 W. Ham 4a 46

Agnes in 1911 'widowed' in West Ham

Agnes Elizabeth Wood 46
Maria Wood 24
Charlotte Wood 20
Janet Wood 18
Mary Ann Wood 10
Ellen Charlotte Wood 4
Thomas Bish 24
Thomas Wray 50
Daisy Wheeler 16

Births Jun 1865 ?
Wood Henry John W Ham 4a 18

so if that is him he was a good deal older than Alice May Quantic Hagley and was still married as well in 1911. But I am still blamed if I can find him or Alice in 1911.

Againy you can copy this into the thread if you like. Now I am going to have to sign up again if I am going to stay up this late playing with familiy history, lol.

best regards,

Evie B

Sarah

Sarah Report 9 Jun 2012 10:47

Here is the only information I have on John Henry Wood:
1912 - 7 Stanbridge Road, Putney (at time of son Samuel Frederick Wood's birth)
1917 - Listed in Post Office County Suburbs Directory 1917 as Greengrocers. Wood, John Henry 50 & 76 Lower Richmond Road, Putney, SW
1918 - 76 Lower Richmond Road, Putney, Wandsworth (London Electoral Register) along with Alice Mary Wood
1947 - Listed as Greengrocer on son Samuel Frederick Wood's marriage certificate - doesn't say deceased.

I do not know his birth year or death year.

I think it's plausable that he was born Henry John Wood but used John Henry Wood later in life as his son Samuel Frederick Wood also did the same. On his marriage certificate he is listed as Frederick Samuel Wood but he signed S F Wood and he was known as Sam.

The Henry and Louisa family look a good match for John Henry Wood's parents especially given the fact they are Grocers.It doesn't surprise me if John Henry Wood was also married before. Going to have a look at the Electoral Registers for him with the other woman now to see if that brings anything up!

Potty

Potty Report 9 Jun 2012 15:21

Sarah, do you have this birth:

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
-Wood John H Moor Wandsworth 1d 1463

There are more Wood/Moor births on freebmd, up until twins in 1916.

Sarah

Sarah Report 9 Jun 2012 15:47

Thanks for the info - yes I know have all the other Wood/Moor births. I have only obtained the certificate for Samuel Frederick as yet though.

Been looking in to the Essex Henry John Wood who married Agnes Elizabeth Huskie and it would seem he worked at the Gas Works and had a child in 1907 so perhaps he left her sometime between 1907 and 1911 and got together with Alice and changed career to Grocer when his father died or became too elderly to run the business anymore? Someone has the Henry who married Agnes on their tree on Ancestry but with parents Henry Wood and Rachel Maria Fountain plus he was born in Essex whereas the Henry, son of Henry and Louisa was born in Ross, Hertfordshire. So not sure about him.

Did a search on FMP for 1911 for Grocers with surname of Wood but none came up.

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 16:44

Hello Sarah, your message about this thread did prompt me to come back and pay my membership again three years later ! And I see there have been many changes since then! and I will have to find my way around, luckily 'my threads' showed this post clearly for me.

Those are my messages back to Sarah that she has copied into the posts on this page, I suggested she do that so others could see the connection to this thread clearly.

Like Potty I had found the other Wood-Moor births in Wandsworth in the GRO.

Births Sep 1911
Wood John H Moor Wandsworth 1d 1463

Births Dec 1916
Wood Charles Moor Wandsworth 1d 1222
Wood Frederick Moor Wandsworth 1d 1222

unfortunately there are deaths registered in Wandsworth that are probably the twins ... the death of a Charles Wood with dob about 1916 that same quarter and the death of a Frederick Wood with dob about 1917 in the first quarter of 1917.


Sarah have you been able to reach Janet by private message ?

Her friend is the daughter of Dolly and hopefully Janet can put you in touch with her.

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 16:57

"Someone has the Henry who married Agnes on their tree on Ancestry but with parents Henry Wood and Rachel Maria Fountain plus he was born in Essex whereas the Henry, son of Henry and Louisa was born in Ross, Hertfordshire. So not sure about him."


In 1851 we have

Name: Henry Word
born abt 1838
wife Louisa Word
born Ross, Herefordshire, England
living in West Ham Essex

The name is really Wood, that is just how it has been transcribed. His son Henry J Wood (it is transcribed as Henry T Word) born abt 1866 is called single and was born in Ross.

The HJ Wood (somebody has corrected it from WJ Wood) with wife Agnes in 1891 was born in Essex so yes they seem to be different people. There were Henry John Woods born in West Ham in 1865 and 1866. So strike him off the list I agree.

But I think the Henry (oilman assistant) with parents Louisa and Henry (oilman) in 1891 looks like one to look at. Born in 1866 he could be the Henry who was the father of the children born after 1911, or he could be that Henry's father ... best guess would be

Births Mar 1867
Wood Henry Ross 6a 465

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 17:14

Here are some of the Woods shown as born in Ross Herefordshire, in 1901 but no Henry / John

Wallace C Wood abt 1866 Ross, Herefordshire, ... Putney, London
Jennie Wood abt 1873 Ross, Herefordshire, ... Sister Putney, London
Alice M Wood abt 1870 Ross, Herefordshire, ... Sister-in-law Streatham, London
Frederick C Wood abt 1875 Ross, Herefordshire, ... Stoke Newington, London
Florence Wood abt 1878 Ross, Herefordshire, ... Servant Bigbury, Devon

(compare with the names in the 1881 household)

Henry Wood 43 grocer and provision dealer
Louisa Wood 45
Wallace C. Wood 16
Allace Wood 12
Selena Wood 11
Hubert J. Wood 9
Frederick C. Wood 6
Florence M. Wood 4

(and here is the household in 1871 in Ross Herefordshire)

Henry Wood 34 grocer and provision dealer
Louisa Wood 35
Emily L Wood 11
Elizabeth M Wood 10
Edith M Wood 7
Wallace C Wood 6
Henry T Wood 5 ***
Beatrice C Wood 4
Alice M Wood 2
Selina J Wood 1

And I think that son really is Henry T

Births Sep 1865
WOOD Henry Thomas Ross 6a 422

so is he the father of John Henry Wood the greengrocer who was the father of Dolly and the other children? Alice their mother was born in 1889 I think?

Sarah

Sarah Report 11 Jun 2012 19:46

Ok, a few new developments! Had contact from Janet which is great. I don't think the Herefordshire Woods are connected.

Over the weekend I found that after Alice died, John Henry carried on living at 76 Lower Richmond Road and in later years he shows up there living with a Nellie Wood.

Marriages Jun 1923 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wood John H Wood Wandsworth 1d 1191
Wood Nellie Wood Wandsworth 1d 1191

Also shows in later years an Ivy C Wood, and Eileen M Wood and a Doris P Wood living with them. The first two I have found births for:
Births Sep 1923 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wood Ivy C Wootton Wandsworth 1d 1220

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1926 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wood Eileen M Wootton Wandsworth 1d 1062

So as the mother's maiden name was listed as Wootton, I searched for Wootton/Wood marriages and found:
Marriages Dec 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wood Frederick Wandsworth 1d 1286
Wootton Nellie Wandsworth 1d 1286

So I'm thinking Nellie married Frederick who then died sometime between 1910 and 1923, and then she remarried his brother John Henry.

Haven't been able to work out who Doris P Wood (or find a birth) is yet but she marries an Eric Phelps:
Marriages Jun 1947 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phelps Eric L Wood Wandsworth 5d 1872
Wood Doris P Phelps Wandsworth 5d 1872

John stops appearing on elec regs in 1949 so the next closest death is:
Name:John H Wood
Birth Date:abt 1877
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1951
Age at Death:74
Registration district:Chelsea
Inferred County:London
Volume:5c
Page:245

This works out as there is a matching probate record mentioning 15 Charlwood Road where he lived later in life with Nellie and lists Nellie as his widow. His deathr ecord infers a year of birth as 1877.

I found the following family which might be him and his parents and siblings:
1901 England Census

Name:Amelie Wood
Age:48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation:Head
Gender:Female
Where born:Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish:Putney
Ecclesiastical parish:St Mary
County/Island:London
Country:England
Registration district:Wandsworth
Sub-registration district:Putney
ED, institution, or vessel:3
Household schedule number:147
Piece:489
Folio:72
Page Number:18
Other Household Members:
John Wood 21
Saml Wood 18
Prudence Wood 16
Fred Wood 14
Chas Wood 12
Chas Thorpe 16

Take note of the siblings names - John Henry Wood had children with these names so is a possibility. Found them in 1891 still in Sevenoaks listing father as Henry Wood. Still cannot find any of them on 1881 or 1911 though.

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 20:13

Excellent! (Coincidence that 'my' Woods had a Frederick too, lol)

John shows in 1901 as born in Sevenoaks Kent

birth of sister Prudence

Births Jun 1885
Wood Prudence Sevenoaks 2a 621

and here is John Henry to match

Births Mar 1878
WOOD John Henry Sevenoaks 2a 583

Marriages Mar 1877 ?
COWARD Emily Rose Sevenoaks 2a 672
Davis Amelia Sevenoaks 2a 672 **
LEVETT James Sevenoaks 2a 672
Wood Henry Sevenoaks 2a 672 **



could this possibly be our Woods in 1881 in Sevenoaks?

the occupation of father Henry is 'butcher' ... did somebody make a mistake when entering his surname ??

Henry Butcher 29 born in Stroud
Amelia Butcher 27 born in Stroud
John Butcher 3 born in Sevenoaks
Margaret Butcher 1
Jane Clutterbuck 29
Samuel Davies 15

the dates and places of birth match up

there is no Henry Butcher + Amelia marriage

one of these deaths

Deaths Jun 1892
Wood Henry 41 Sevenoaks 2a 358
Deaths Sep 1896
Wood Henry 44 Sevenoaks 2a 382

Sarah

Sarah Report 11 Jun 2012 20:19

Just found Doris P Wood who married Eric Phelps - looks like she wasn't born Wood but married beforehand:
Marriages Sep 1931 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clarke Doris P Wood Pancras 1b 74
Wood Leonard J Clarke Pancras 1b 74
So presumably Leonard died. So now I need to work out who Leonard is - another child of John Henry and Alice perhaps? or Nellie's son with her first husband Frederick Wood?

Can't find a Nellie Wood on 1911 census although she married Frederick in 1910.

Well done Evie in finding that 1881 census record - it's definitly them!

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 20:40

! and 1891 in Sevenoaks

Henry Wood 38 occupation butcher
Amelia Wood 38
John Wood 13
Margaret D Wood 11
Samuel G Wood 8
Priscilla Wood 5
Charles D Wood 2

I was not finding them by searching with husband/wife mother+father because Amelia is recorded as 'M' for relationship and Ancestry has called her the mother of her husband Henry but not of her own children !

Sarah

Sarah Report 11 Jun 2012 20:50

It's the:
Deaths Sep 1896
Wood Henry 44 Sevenoaks 2a 382

Just found his probate as follows: "Wood otherwise Butcher Henry of Lower St John's Sevenoaks Kent butcher died 22 September 1896 Administration London 31 March to Amelia Wood widow Effects £123 18s"

Also explains the 1881 census surname "error" - might look for a John Henry Butcher in 1911 to see if that throws anything up! Edit - Unfortunately not!

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 21:02

Aha, coincidences all, lol, name and occupation ... did he change his name to match his occupation ?

Amelia's death

Deaths Mar 1932
Wood Amelia M 79 Wandsworth 1d 885

but for want of Woods in 1911 Butcher should be a good lead ...

EvieBeavie

EvieBeavie Report 11 Jun 2012 21:11

not seeing any Butchers to match in 1911 and I have to run off soon.

Marriages Dec 1906
Chandler Robert Wandsworth 1d 1312
SMITH Henry Wandsworth 1d 1312
STREETLEY Alice Kate Wandsworth 1d 1312
WOOD Prudence Wandsworth 1d 1312

There are Smith-Wood births in Wandsworth in 1912 and 1923 ...

1911

Name: Prudence Smith
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Wife
Birth Place: Seven Oaks, Kent, England
Civil parish: Acton
County/Island: Middlesex
Henry Smith 32
Prudence Smith 23
Henry Samuel Vincent Smith 3
Frank Edward Ronald Smith 2
Margaret Wood 25 her sister


but even spelling Seven Oaks that way there are no other Woods or butchers the right age in 1911