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Whats going on here? wierd marriege cert

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Donna Report 19 Nov 2010 11:04

Thanks Janet. I will look into that possibility. I do know he died suddenly of a heart attack on christmas eve 1952,but I can ask family members questions about that. William and Emily are buried togather in the same plot. The headstone reads that they are husband and wife,but living rellies can't remember them being married so maybe the wedding in 1919 was theirs after all.
I wont be giving up that easily. This family just keep throwing problems at me left right and centre.
Siobhan you to have encountered the name changes and I though it was just me. Emily was my great grandmother and Florence her eldest daughter-my grandmother also tried to confuse me. She registered all her children's births with the correct fathers surname,but finding them was a nightmare. She managed to register them using 4 different maiden names although this was her only marriage to my grandfather. Then I found that she had lived with but not married someone and had another six children with him before meeting my grandfather.Talk about being confusing.
I either have a very colourful family or some dodgy dealings going on . Not sure which.

Thanks for all your input.


Madmeg Report 19 Nov 2010 01:12

Siobhan has good advice - never give up. Something will come to light eventually. Keep returning to the chase.

Janet could be right. It was the done thing around then to have life insurance, especially after WW2 when people were becoming a bit more affluent.

Hope you get to a satisfactory answer. Let us know if you want more help, and good of us to tell us where you are up to.


CelticShiv Report 18 Nov 2010 19:02

Have read through the entire thread, and while I haven't got anything to advise other than what has already been given.

One thing I can say, is things can often be not what they seem. I spent 7 years trying to break down a brick wall surrounding my great grandfather.

I managed to by sheer luck piece some information together, to reveal that he used various different names, married 3 times (at least) bigamously, had 22 children in total which I know of and his real name which I eventually managed to discover was one that he never used with any of his marriages.

No wonder he gave me such a headache. It was such a relief when I finally solved the mystery though.

Don't give up, keep at it, even look at the unexpected and eventually it will all piece together I am sure.



Janet Report 18 Nov 2010 14:53

Regarding the marriage cert in the1950's . Perhaps the first marriage cert' disappeared' because of the possible deceit but if William was terminally ill it may be that his life was insured and that a marriage certificate was required as proof of marriage in case of a payout. In that case they would have to apply for a new certificate.
In recent years when I was sorting out my pension, my marriage cert was missing so I had to apply for a replacement cert to prove I was still married......just a thought-Jle


Donna Report 18 Nov 2010 06:48

Thanks Meg for having another look.These photos turned up seperate. One of William H Pickin (groom) found by a relative who didn't know who he was. I matched him to an old army photo I have of him. The other was from an aunt .It had her nannie's name on it and and it is her. That one was Emily Rhoda Pickin maiden name Gage. She first was married to Albert Edward Pickin (William's younger brother). He died in 1915 so looks like she married William in 1919 and covered her identity by using her sister in laws christian names Maud Beatrice. All this seems to fall in now,but the only thing niggling me is the witnesses at the wedding. There seems to be the name Skelton and Gage and i think this is Emily's brother and his wife who is the Maud Beatrice Gage nee Skelton sister in law.
My minds working over now.Maybe she let her secret out to one of her daughters and thats why I have this marriage cert from 1952 from somerset house. Maybe the daughter was checking up. I know they never applied for a passport so didn't need the marriage cert for anything else.

The photos of West Ham registery office/town hall would be a great idea. Fingers crossed that it is the same building as I have . If not I am back to square one. If its not then matbe you will know where this building is. It looks like a grand sandstone building with steps and pillars at the from. There are some very ornate iron railing around the front. I expect these were taken down during ww2 for the war effort.
I will pm you with my email address.

thanks ever so much.


Madmeg Report 16 Nov 2010 23:49

So who are these photos of?

A Mr Gage marrying a Ms Pickin, I presume.

Have you two separate photos - one of Mr Gage, and one of Ms Pickin?

So why do you think he bride is .... sorry, it's too complicated for me. Too late at night. so who do you think the bride is on these photos?

I think you'll have do do a resume for me, I am too slow to absorb it all.


Linda Report 16 Nov 2010 17:52

I have read all 7 pages. sorry I cannot help!

Good luck on your search though

Linda x


Donna Report 16 Nov 2010 13:04

Thanks Kay. Good tip.


Kay???? Report 16 Nov 2010 12:39


google" street views"for a walk down the road/street if you know its name.

if its still in the same place with no alterations you can get a full on view.


Donna Report 16 Nov 2010 11:52

Some time ago I posted this thread and wanted answers to who did get married on this marriage cert I have obtained. Very confusing it was and lots of kind people tried to get to the bottom of it with me, but sadly the answer wasn't out there at the time. Well months have gone by and I have come across 2 seperate photos of the believed couple in question. They have been taken at the same time and in the same location. First one is of a woman looking very jolly arriving at a grand building and dressed smartly. The next is of a man believed to be the groom standing outside the same building. I know who both these are in my family. It looks like the bride told a fib on the marriage cert and said she was someone else (her sister in Law). For what reason I don't now why. The only thing out of the ordinary is that she seems to marry her dead husbands brother.
Now I am looking for a photo on the web of West Ham registry office or town Hall that matches my photographs of possible wedding couple.
If anyone can point me in the right direction that would be great.

I would like to thank all those who puzzled over this one in the months gone by and tried to help me find the answers I was looking for.



Donna Report 24 Jun 2009 17:23

Well I am sorry to sat that there is no more new info on this riddle. I sent a letter and returned the photos with a family tree and some copies of my photos to Henry Secery's daughter in law and have not heard from her at all. I think that avenue of enquiry as gone.
2 rellies who live in the South are planning a visit to Kew in a couple of weeks for me. I have given them a list of things to look for including lots of electral roll searches.

This will be most valuable as I can't see me travelling there from Manchester at present..

Heres hopeing that something new turns up.

Thankyou all for your input.


Donna Report 27 May 2009 19:54

Will do as soon as I hear somehing.

The answer must be out there.


Libby22 Report 27 May 2009 10:26

Good luck, Donna. Kepp us up to date.


Donna Report 27 May 2009 08:32

I have been through that lot and don't know how I missed it. Probably too much looking and tired eyes. It sounds a good one. I think it could be him. I would presume Maud Died in the late 60s,but the only possible I have is a Beatrice M Gage.

I have sent a letter to Henry GAGE'S daughter in law,with this very subject. I should get a reply this week. Shes been really helpful.

I have had comfirmation that the man with Maud in the photos is Henry GAGE 2ND and not William Pickin.


Libby22 Report 26 May 2009 20:20

Hi Donna,

I've not given up on your thread, and think I may have found Henry S Gage the second's death registered in West Ham.

1st qrt 1954, age at death 71, West Ham. Henry S Gage. vol 5a page 652.

I soooooooo hope it's him.


Donna Report 25 May 2009 08:04

Ok I have had a comparison picture done of Henry Severy 2nd The man with maud in the pics and William Pickin just to see if it really is HENRY.

I think it is ,which is good and shows that Henry and Maud were together until 1940s.
The evidence on the marriage cert 1919 suggest that this Maud was the one that married Henry Gage in 1915.
Looking at this I am no wiser.

1919 marriage of Maud Beatrice Gage /William Pickin.
Witnesses F Skelton -could be Fred
M Skelton-Maud MAUD'S MOTHER.
H S Gage
Maud and William Living at 109 Field Road Forest gate.

Maud Beatrice Skelton death cert 1919 2days after wedding. informant Henry George Skelton -son living at 109 Field Road ,Forest gate

Electral roll 1919 Henry Severy Gage living at 109 Field Rd ,Forest Gate

Why are all these peolpe living at the same address?
William and new bride MAUD What would seem like the ex husband Henry Severy and Maud's brother Henry George Skelton.
OR is there another Maud Beatrice Gage b abt 1877. I can't find one.

I have been onthis since 1st April and thinking someone is taking this April fool to far .


Donna Report 22 May 2009 21:58

I'm doubting its William Pickin now. Judging by the age of grandson John who looks about 6yrs in the pics. John was born 1944 so looking at around 1950. William Pickin was definatley with Emily at this time and lived in Fulham and worked in warehouses and markets. He died 24/12/1951.Was he leading a double life if it is him?. It can't be!!!!!


Libby22 Report 22 May 2009 20:40

Ooh, Donna

I can't wait to hear what the relatives who knew William P. have to say.


Donna Report 22 May 2009 19:15

Please read al this thread to get an idea of whats going on.

Anyone out there have a rellie called MAUD BEATRICE SKELTON,PICKIN OR GAGE.


Donna Report 22 May 2009 08:05

The next revealation in this saga is that I have just received some photos from The daughter in law of Henry GAGE 3RD. Looking at them I can see Maud and her husband,but I'm confused to who he is. The picutres are taken in the late 1940s. Her husband looks the image of William PICKIN although a little older. I have sent them on to relatives who knew William well just to confirm that it is him. If not it must be Henry Gage the 2nd,but that couldn't explain the marriage to William Pickin in 1919. Who ever this man is he is thought to be Henry Gage 3rd father and grandfather of his son John.

What happend to Henry Severy GAGE B 1882?. STILL NO DEATH FOUND.