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Whats going on here? wierd marriege cert

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Victoria Report 3 Apr 2009 22:25

I don't think it was illegal to marry your sister's husband - but only as long as your sister had died.



Libby22 Report 3 Apr 2009 23:00

Victoria is right.

The 1907 Marriage Act revised marriage laws making it legal to marry yout brother/sister in law if the brother/sister was deceased.


Madmeg Report 3 Apr 2009 23:04


I still think you need to consider the marriage certificate you have got an whether or not it is the right one. Are you certain that it is?

If not, start from scratch, as most of us have to do.

Can you please reply to this idea?



Libby22 Report 4 Apr 2009 00:49

Hi Donna,

After pouring over this puzzle I have come to the conclusion that it was indeed Emily Rhoda who married William H Pickin, the age is right (Emily would have been around 41 in 1819)

As someone else suggested, she may have given a name alias not realising the marriage laws had changed - allowing people to marry brothers' in law, providing the future husband's brother had died. I can see no other explanation.

I think the way forward is to look for registered deaths of Maud and Emily, and maybe Henry S Gage (2nd) and William H Pickin.


Libby22 Report 4 Apr 2009 01:09

I haven't found a registered birth for Henry S Gage born 1916 mmn Skelton. What's the birth ref for him? The only Henry Gage born around the time which I have found had mmn Thornton.

The only Gage/Skelton birth in the indexes is for Audrey G A Gage 1913 Stonehouse Devon.


Libby22 Report 4 Apr 2009 01:36

Is this the mother of Ernest Gage born 1936?

Violet R Pickin
Year of Registration: 1914 Apr-Jun registered Hackney

And Violet's brother?

Name: Albert W Pickin
Year of Registration: 1912 Oct-Dec registered Hackney

If so, do you know who this is?

Name: William H Pickin
Year of Registration: 1912
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's Maiden Name: Gage


Libby22 Report 4 Apr 2009 10:21

I believe Henry S Gage born 1916 was NOT Maud Skelton's and Henry S Gage's (1882) child. As I posted above, that Henry S Gage's mmn was Thornton. This is, I think, his parents marriage.

Marriages Dec 1913

Gage George H Thornton St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 1080

Thornton Emma L Cage St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 1080


Donna Report 4 Apr 2009 10:51

I have got Henry S Gage born june quart 1916 West Ham mothers maiden name Skelton 4a 119
I also found the death entry on ancestry Henry Severy Gage born 7th may 1916 death 1992 Newham London.

Emily died in 1958 and William Henry pickin in 1951. They are buried together in Brompton Cemetery. When Emily's grandaughter was looking for their buriel details for me she came across this marriage cert. She only recognised William's name. He was known to them as Uncle Harry.

Ernest Freeman is also Emily's grandson and his mother was Violet Pickin. There were several children Florence (my gran) Ethel,Doris ,Gladys,Albert and Violet.

The William H Pickin b 1912 mmn Gage is Emily's sister's son. She was Mabel Gage who actually married Albert and William's elder brother John Pickin .They had children Dorothy, William,Irene,Ivy,Jessie and Clifford.

They certainly liked to keep it in the family. I found that the GAGE AND PICKIN families lived in the same road in Forest Gate(Odessa Road)

Hope this info helps.
I still can't find death reg of Henry Severy GAGE 2nd. I initially thought he had gone to war ww1 and died so his widow remarried William Pickin in 1919

Can't thank you all enough for your input.



Donna Report 4 Apr 2009 18:39

Just had a brain wave.

I have the address at time of marriage to the couple an they are living together. To establish if it is Emily or Maud living with William Pickin i Thought electrol rolls would be the answer.
They were at 109 Field Road, Forest gate in March 1919. Is it the surname or address that you look up and can I do this on line as I'm in Manchester?



Libby22 Report 4 Apr 2009 19:01

Hi Donna,

I don't think women in England were eligible to vote at the time, I believe it wasn't until about 1925-30 before women got the right to vote. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Electoral rolls are not searchable online, the British Library in London has them, and for a fee will do a search.


Donna Report 4 Apr 2009 19:09

Well thats no good then . It was the women of the house I wanted to know about. Back to the drawing board.


Donna Report 5 Apr 2009 11:03

After alot of thought on this problem I now think that William Henry Pickin did marry Maud Beatice Gage . Don't think Emily Rhoda was using the name Maud to cover up the fact she is marrying her brother in law. I don't think she ever did.
The fact that Henry Severy GAGE 2nd (Emily's brother) MARRIED Maud Beatrice Skelton in 1915 and had a son Henry Severy gage in 1916 . Leads me to think that the Maud that William Married in 1919 was the same person. The witmesses at wedding were M Skelton who could be her mother and FSkelton who could be her brother Fred. So this must be the cert of Maud Beatrice Sketon who then became Gage and then Pickin.

Hope that made sense


Libby22 Report 5 Apr 2009 21:43

But, you said H S Gage was also a witness to the marriage? How could he be a witness at the marriage, if the bride was Maud, his wife?


Madmeg Report 5 Apr 2009 22:25

Phew, this is a hard one, isn't it? I go back and ask if you are certain that the marriage certificate you have got is the right one. You haven't answered me on that question yet.

Why was it obtained? 30-odd years later?

Is it real?

I told you of my own story of a birth certificate being wrong. Perhaps you need to start from scratch.



Donna Report 5 Apr 2009 23:06

H s gage could be her son,but he would only be 3yrs.He was born in 1916????
The cert looks like a real one. I can scan it to show you if I knew how. It says Somerset House which is the place you got them from at that time I think. I have no reason to believe it is not real. The person who gave it to me is the grandaughter of Emily Gage and I am Emily's greatgrandaughter. Again though strange they purchased it in 1950. Its got some writing on the corner and I can only make out £2. Seems abit pricey for a cert from 1950,but I belive they were expensive back then. Any idea how much they really were?
There were 3 Henry Severy GAGE'S

William Pickin lived with his sister Minnie on 1901 census. Once I locate that part of the family they may have more info on William. She ended her days in the Channel islands.The only pic I have of him is one in his army uniform ww1. He is a bit of a mystery from 1901 onwards. Not sure when he took up with Emily Henry's sister.

Thanks to those who are still trying to help me.



Kate Report 5 Apr 2009 23:13

It's not life insurance, is it? I've got death certificates for my great grandad, great grandma and a great-great uncle and on the back of each an amount of money is written, the date it was paid out and the insurance company the policy was taken out with. Something like £10 in the 1950s, I think.

Women over 30 were allowed to vote after 1918 and they were given equal voting rights with men in 1928 (so, all those over 21, I think). Didn't get lowered to 18 (for everyone) until 1969.


Libby22 Report 5 Apr 2009 23:54

Hi Donna,

I don't think a three year old would be a witness to a marriage.

Have you thought about sending for Maud Skelton's death certificate? IF her daughter Maud was the informant, it would give her full name and address. With a bit of luck (you deserve some) she will be either Maud Gage, or Maud Pickin, and you can see if the address matches with the address on William H Pickin's/Maud Gage's marriage certificate.


Donna Report 6 Apr 2009 07:08

Oh Libby a ray of hope.
I had not thought of that. Will send for it today.



Donna Report 6 Apr 2009 07:17

Just found Maud B Skelton death and surprise she died 1st quarter 1919. The marriage is 12th march 1919.
Location of death is correct West Ham and her age is 52.
Think I'm going potty with this one now. Could Emily use a dead womans name on cert? It is Maud's mother because the birth yr is correct at 1867.

fingers crossed for a result


Libby22 Report 6 Apr 2009 11:07

Good luck with the certificate, Donna. Let us know the outcome.