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Whats going on here? wierd marriege cert

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

+*+blossom In Essex+*+

+*+blossom In Essex+*+ Report 7 Apr 2009 11:13

Nudge - because I wan't to see the outcome of this one!

kay

kay Report 7 Apr 2009 12:28

I would also like to see the outcome of this.
Kayx

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 7 Apr 2009 12:34

nudge for later

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 7 Apr 2009 22:09

You are not the only ones. This quest has been a nightmare. I have done my share of searching, as has everyone else. I want to know what happens.

Maggie

Donna

Donna Report 8 Apr 2009 07:28

Me too. I spoke to The grandaughter of Emily Pickin last night to see if I could find any clues about William. He seems abit of a dark horse in the family. She seems to think that He and Emily got together when her children were still young. So looking at around the time of the cert 1919.
The cert was purchased in 1950 and she thinks this was done by her aunts. Don't know what they were looking for. She said there was always an atmosphere when he walked in a room. Looks like Emily's children didn't much care for him. I wonder what he did.
William or Emily never went abroad so the cert wasn't for a passport application.

I didn't dig much up on William. He lived with his sister Minnie Halden nee Pickin in Stafford in 1901. Not sure when he moved to London where the rest of his family lived. I have a photo of him in a ww1 uniforn ,but sadly can't find any war records for him on ancestry.

Fingers crossed and everything else that theres a clue on Maud Skelton's death cert.
Thankyou
Donna

Von

Von Report 8 Apr 2009 09:58

Donna
I've only come to this thread. I'm wondering if you have looked to see if there were any wills in the family which might throw any light on this.
Also as mentioned before there maybe some other reason for the certificate being obtained.
Were there any insurance policies on those involved.
I have a death certificate that doesn't give the correct age at death otherwise the policy would not have been paid out.
Good luck with the search
Von

Donna

Donna Report 9 Apr 2009 07:23

Hi Von

Thanks for your input. I had not thought about insurance ,but will ask my rellies. Going to ring dad's cousin today and see what he can tell me. He was born 1936 and spent alot of time with his grandmother Emily.
I'm not convinced who the woman on the marriage cert is. Was she made up. Did someone lie about their name and statuus? By rights I would have thought it to be Emily Rhoda Pickin nee gage who was the widow of William's Brother Albert. Why change your name? if thats the case.
Who is Maud Beatrice GAGE aged 41 in 1919? That is the question.

plodding on.........

Donna

Donna Report 9 Apr 2009 18:37

Just spoken to elderly relative who remembers William Henry Pickin and lived with him and his family when a boy. He tells me that His gran Emily Rhoda didn't get together with William until during ww2. That means that Maud Beatrice he married in 1919 was actually a different person and not Emily.

Wonder where she went? I can't find a death for Maud Beatrice Pickin!!!!

Donna

Donna Report 14 Apr 2009 16:00

The long awaited death cert of Maud Beatrice Skelton as just arrived.

She is something to do with the Maud Beatrice Gage on marriage cert of William Henry Pickin. I presume she is my Mauds mother and I know they are connected further because informant of death is Mother Maud's son H.G. Skelton-son living at 109 Field Road, Forest gate. The same address as William and new wife Maud Gage.
Maud b 1867 attended her daughters wedding on 12th March 1919 and died 2 days later on 14th March 1919 . She died of Pneumonia and Influenza. I would have thought she wsn't well at all at the wedding and probably shouldn't have gone.
Her husband is Henry George Skelton a Tailors cutter . I think I found this family on the census .

The problem is where did Maud b Gage nee Skelton's 1st husband go? No death can still be found. Why was her age wrong on marriage cert and why did she put fathers name and occupation as her father in law. Henry Severy Gage's father b 1851-1893 also called Henry Severy GAGE.

ANY IDEAS FOLKS ON WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS. WHAT SHALL I LOOK AT NEXT? EVEN MORE CONFUSED NOW.!!!!!

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 14 Apr 2009 19:32

Well, I've read through it all again!

Donna, maybe I am a bit slow - well, I know I am! The death certificate would seem to be that of Maud Stewart who married Henry George Skelton in 1892, with whom she had a daughter Maud Beatrice Skelton born 1891, who married Henry S Gage the second.

Am I right on that?

She died two days after the wedding of Maud Beatrice Gage to William Henry Pickin in 1919. However, you think this Maud Beatrice was not a Gage, but a Skelton. Why do you think that? She was 41 on marriage, so born 1878, the right age to be the older sister of Henry S Gage the second and hence the daughter of Henry S Gage the first.

I am having trouble finding the Gage family on the census records. Is it possible that Henry the first had a daughter Maud Beatrice.

I might be totally up the creek.

Maggie

Donna

Donna Report 14 Apr 2009 20:40

No you are not thick it just takes alot to get your head round it. I don't know where I am with it now. Everyone going off and marrying someones brother, sister or sister in law.

It is a problem.

I think maud Gage on marriage cert was previously married to Henry Severy Gage 2nd in 1915,but then married William Henry Pickin in 1919.
On marriage certher age is 41 and to be honest I don't know where this comes from. Maybe she made it up because she wanted to be more inline with Williams age of 42.
She put her father as Henry Severy Gage 1st deceased.
Witnesses at wedding are M Skelton, F Skelton and H S Gage. There must be a connection to the Skeltons.
Maud GAGE NOW PICKIN is living at 109 Field Road ,Forest Gate along with William Pickin and its the same address as H G Skelton informant of death on death cert of MAUD BEATRICE SKELTON . He is her son.

I have all census for the GAGES and never come across anyone called MAUDbefore in the GAGE family.
This is to help you with the family I.D.
Henry Severy Gage1st was married to Susan and they had the following children;
Mabel Annie GAGE B 1876 married to John Pickin William's brother.

Emily Rhoda GAGE B 1877 married to Albert Pickin -William's brother .after Alberts death in 1915 Emily was widowed but later lived as man and wife with William Pickin in 1940.

Elizabeth b 1879
Florence b 1880
Henry Severy b 1882.
Henrietta b 1883.
Ethel b 1885.
William b1886
Amelia M\ary b 1887.
Percy George b 1889.
Winifred Ada b 1893..

dohope this help paint a picture of the family.
Is there anyone who lives near Forest gate who could do an electrol roll lookup for me from 1919 109 Field Road. Skelton /Gage both living there,but would like to know who exactly.

Thankyou

Donna

Donna Report 14 Apr 2009 21:48

nudge

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 15 Apr 2009 00:37

Hi Donna

Found them now in 1881 and 1891, don't know why I didn't before.

Where is Henry the first in 1871 and 1861? Who were his parents?

Beginning to realise there are a lot of Gages in London, there could even be another Maud Beatrice with a father Henry Severy!

I too cannot find a death for Henry the second, nor of his wife Maud Beatrice unless she remarried. If she is the Maud Beatrice who married William Henry Pickin, surely he would have known that she was not a spinster. As you say, the witness H.S. Gage cannot be Henry the third aged only 3, must be Henry the second - though as you say, there is no evidence of him having a sister Maud Beatrice.

Sorry to appear a pest, but I can usually get to the bottom of these mysteries with enough research (though I have had my failures too!).

After tomorrow, am away for 5 days, so when I return I hope you have it all solved - am dying to hear that!

Maggie

Donna

Donna Report 15 Apr 2009 07:27

Your not a pest Meg. I appreciate the help with this one . It very difficult to get your head round. Why does my family have to be difficult?.
Henry Severy Gage 1st father was Edward Gage b1818 Whitechapel and he married Emma Marie Severy. They had the following chldren;
William E 1843
John 1844 (Bird cage maker married to Susan),
Edward 1845.
Matilda 1846.
Emma 1848.
Hnery Severy 1851 - 1893 Silk tie cutter
Emily 1859.

The answer must be out there. I am trying to find living relatives of Henry SeveryGAGE 3rd, so I can just ask them. A very slow process........I have even contacted GAGE people in London to see if they are connected to him. Its called desperation....

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 15 Apr 2009 12:31

One last stab before I do my packing - how about graves for some of this lot? I know you know about William Pickin and Emily, but what about some of the others - Maud Beatrice might turn up with them.

Maggie

Donna

Donna Report 15 Apr 2009 14:11

I have photos of William and Albert Pickin and Emily's grave stones and theres nothing else on them.
Don't worry about it now . Have a nice trip and carry on with your packing. Your making me feel guilty distracting you with this.

Thanks for your help. No doubt it will still be here when you get back.
Donna

Donna

Donna Report 17 Apr 2009 19:00

Yet another twist in this sage.
12th March 1919 marriage cert William Pickin and Maud Beatrice Gage nee Skelton-address 109 Field Road . Forest Gate.
14th March 1919 Maud's mother's death cert, Informant H G Skelton-son living at the above address.
1919 electrol roll for above address. Henry Severy Gage only there. He is Maud's first husband from 1915 marriage.
he disappears after this no death for him.
Now whats going on? I can't say now that Maud left her husband and went off with William. They all seem to be in the same house.

Just had a thought maybe the other witness on maud and William's marriage cert is H S Gage. Could this actually be MAUD'S FIRST HUSBAND. I presume that they divorced ,so she was free the marry William.
I don't know much about divorces. Where do I find these kind of records to see if Henry and maud divorced before 1919?

Libby22

Libby22 Report 17 Apr 2009 22:32

Hi Donna,

Divorce was very expensive back then. Would Henry have been in a position to pay for an expensive divorce?

Donna

Donna Report 18 Apr 2009 00:21

I wouldn't have thought so. He was a motor bus driver.

Donna

Donna Report 18 Apr 2009 15:51

Prison I hadn't thought of that one. Where do I start with prison records?Going to sea I have explored. There is a Henry S Gage who travelled to NEW YORK IN 1919 . His age was a little out and I thought couldn't be him. He was a bus driver in 1911 and seaman was long way from this especially a high ranked one.

Thanks