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Birth Certificates UPDATE

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 19 Feb 2010 22:51

Just nudged Marian's new thread. Will keep on it.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 19 Feb 2010 22:48

Well done Marian. I have just spoken on the phone to a friend of mine who was born and brought up in the Midlands. She has directed me to Birmingham Dogs Home, opened in 1882. Also also to West Midlands Police.

Long shots, I know.

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 19 Feb 2010 21:17

I see Marian has put up a thread for someone to do a look up for her at Birmingham Archives.........no replies as yet.....



Nicky

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 19 Feb 2010 11:29

Why dont you ask if there is somebody who lives in Birmingham and can take a look at the archives. You never know. I have recently found a connection on here who has helped me no end in solving a few things.

She is a volunteer in Sedgley archives and has been able to tell me the ages of some people who had died so I could order the correct death certs. These are early death before 1850 when ages are not on the registration.

She is also going to scan some burials she has found for these dead people. Im so thrilled

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 18 Feb 2010 21:52

Prehaps Thomas was a bit of a Walter Mitty charecter?...................but it is starting to look as though thats where the Police connection may have come in..........


What is an Asylum record likely to have.......presumably an admittance date and release date at least............ if only one of us was near Birmingham..........shall we have a wip round..........lol!!

If this is our man I wonder if he went back to the same asylum if he had a breakdown after the marriage? Would there have been a situation where a wife would be embarrased/ashamed if her husband was commited?........might explain why Mary Jane dissapeared.....

Nicky

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 18 Feb 2010 19:31

They did have police dogs from about the mid 1800s. According to the wonderfully (in)accurate and (un)informative Wikipedia. And by about 1880 police forces in major cities were using them a lot more.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 18 Feb 2010 15:57

Copy entry of baptism of Martha Tedstone arrived. 11 Jan 1835, Parish of Hopesay, mother Charlotte Tedstone of Aston, Widow. So no wiser who her father was - possibly Thomas Davies.

Marian

Marian Report 18 Feb 2010 09:18

I remember the T Tedstone's occupation being described a a 'dog keeper', at the time I wondered in what capacity. I can't imagine their were dogs homes back then, did they have police dogs in those days? Another option was that he may have looked after the hounds used for hunting. Sorry what I was getting at is that it might explain his contact with horses.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 18 Feb 2010 01:16

Nicky, it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I know they have to stick to the rules, but some of these people are sympathetic to the cause, so if I use the right words, tell them I have already spent a lot of money etc. they are usually okay for a quick look up. After all, with Martha Tedstone I gave them the year, the place and possible surnames. It could only have taken a few minutes. I asked also about Charlotte, her sister also aged 6 in 1841, but they couldn't find her. So she was not born in 1835 or thereabouts, and they would want to charge for finding her. Fair enough.

But Birmingham is not in that category. £25 or nothing. And it might be the wrong fella!!

No, she isn't Jane Dyball, Jane Hayball, sorry Jane if you are reading this. She seems very thorough. I have emailed her again on Thomas, but I think she is not likely to help, though is keen to try.

I hadn't thought about a dog-handler being a policeman. I suppose he could be. Or might think he was, or his father was.

I agree with you Nicky. This family is unique in the way it takes on chldren from anywhere in the family. If there was a prize for the most caring family over the last 150 years, this lot would get it. And I know that they are still doing it today.

Am now about to advise Marian on how to get the record of the T Tedstone in the Looney Bin.

Oh, and Nicky, you are also a Diamond with all the work you have done on Thomas Tedstones.

Margaret

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 17 Feb 2010 23:16

Margaret ...you are a Diamond....... the way you mange to get all this free information from Archive and Record Offices.


Good news that Martha was born a Tedstone...at least that makes Jessie a blood relative, rather than just Charlottes step gr grandaughter...


Keep thinking about our Thomas.......also think the T. Tedstone in the Asylum could be him....didn`t it say he was a dog handler/trainer?...funny that as I`ve never seen that as an occupation on a Census....sounds more like a job for a Policeman........Could this explain why Thomas said his father was a Policeman on his marriage cert.?...Did he have a bit of a "thing" about the Police??.....

Nicky

EDIT... Jane Dyball seems to have done her research on these Tedstones.........can`t believe there are more of them looking after nephews and nieces....i`ve never known a family like it..

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 17 Feb 2010 20:45

I don't think so Mary. Martha Tedstone b 1835 would appear to be the unmarried mother of Robert George b 1862 and Thomas b 1867. They may have been brothers or half-brothers, we will never know.

Jane Dyball with the tree on Ancestry has added a lot more notes and useful information. Harry Tedstone who appears with Martha and William Jones age 9 in 1891 is the son of Martha's niece Sarah Tedstone who died in childbirth in 1890. So he is a great nephew of Martha's. Agnes Tedstone who appears with the Darwoods in 1891 is another child of Sarah (so Mary Darwood's niece). Sarah Tedstone married Charles James Presdee and died in 1890 in childbirth with twins, Hilda May who lived (and is with Charles in 1891) and Charles who did not. All very sad.

Mary

Mary Report 17 Feb 2010 17:18

So again I ask are we saying that Martha Tedstone married a relative by the name of Tedstone and had Thomas 1867.

Maryb

Marian

Marian Report 17 Feb 2010 16:55

Hi to all who are still sticking with it, you have unlimited patience, I will contact the Birmingham Archives and pay for them for any information they have regarding T Tedstone in the Asylum, it will be interesting to see what, if anything they come up with.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 17 Feb 2010 16:26

Hi Nicky, welcome back.

If we accept that the marriage of Thomas to Mary Jane Bradford in 1892 is that of the parents of Jessie (and we have no other to go on), then it seems obvious that Mary Darwood (witness, nee Tedstone) is his cousin with whom he was brought up. That Thomas is son of Martha Tedstone, no father given.

I had an email from Shropshire Archives yesterday to say the Martha born 1835 in Hopesay is Tedstone, not Davies as she appeared to be in 1841. They are sending me a copy of the entry so that will give her parents, hopefully John and Charlotte.

It is a pity we can't find a better Thomas in 1891. It seems the only one unaccounted for now is the T Tedstone, Lunatic, in Birmingham Looney Bin, age 20. Perhaps he was kicked by the horse before 1891, seemed to recover enough to attract a wife, and then deteriorated again. I've just applied to Liverpool to get records of a possible relative of mine in Rainhill Looney bin and it is costing me £20 for a search - and I don't even think it's likely to be him. But when you run out of ideas.....

Oh, I've already contacted Birmingham archives, they charge £25.

We could with some kind soul paying them a visit.

Margaret

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 17 Feb 2010 01:10

Hi All.... glad to read all theu updates, {been having Internet problems, 1st time iv`e been able to connect tonight sine Saturday.}.....and all the theories on the different dates of birth...agree the niece age 8 with the Hadleys and their horrible children { hope theres no descendants of Beryl and Dennis reading this thread...LOL} must be our Jessie and again 10 years later in 1911.... a very good point about an Aunt having trouble remembering a correct birthdate.

As for finding the correct Thomas as father to Jessie I said to Marian the only Thomas Tedstone with father Thomas is 17 in 1881 and an apprentice Blacksmith, he can`t be found in 1891, and then turns up as a Blacksmith in 1901 and 1911 unmarried himself with unmarried sister Margaret/Mary...... those later census`s confirm his place of birth as Pembridge Hereford in 1863.......his father Thomas was a Farm Balliff in 1881 and earlier, is then a labourer in 1891, and I think i have his death in Mar 1892 in Bromyard...

The younger Thomas the Blacksmith who I think IS the only other possibility for Jessies father also dies { I think} in Bromyard age 78 in 1842..... If he WAS Jessies father he obviously up and left before 1901....described himself as unmarried in the next 2 Census`s and presumably never married, unless it was after 1911.... but even if it was him and not the one born in Clun in 1867...where did the witness Mary Tedstone who married the Darwood tie in?....so am now more sure than ever that Thomas born Clun 1867 was Jessies father...but I can find no death or marriage to fit with him its like he simply dissapeared off the face of the earth.............


Nicky

When you start that book on the Tedstones Margaret............I have a lot of notes and theories that may help !!!!.....

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 15 Feb 2010 19:05

That was nice of the Dudley RO Pity about the date

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 15 Feb 2010 14:56

A nice man from Dudley RO rang this morning to (sadly) confirm that Jessie's birthdate of 19th Sept is correct.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 13 Feb 2010 19:18

Oh yes, Christine, I had forgotten that. Blimey, so much to remember and record-keeping has never been my strong point. Okay, the Tedstones are back in favour!

Nothing yet from the Rootschat site.

I contacted Birmingham Archives to beg a free look-up of a possible christening for Jessie on 28th Sept, possibly at the church that her parents got married, but they charge £25 an hour. They said if I could provide exact details they might do it for less. I'll try and plead with them, but "systems are systems" it seems.

Ivy, that is interesting to hear - and happened so much later than 1892 (unless you are 108 that is!), and I agree more likely cos Jessie was not brought up by her mother.

Marian said someone thought Jessie was in a children's home at some point. There was a Barnardos home at Wordsley, Stourbridge at that time, now is Red Brick Court, a home for dementia sufferers. Just been on the Bardardos website, they charge £15 for a basic search that may well tell you they have no record. Then it is £85 for a "full history package". Phew - I'll have six please! I have a friend who was brought up in a Barnardos home, will see if he can pull any strings with them. He's also a Mormon.

More thoughts - getting more imaginative all the time - I wonder if Jessie was in there until 27 September 1894 and the family didn't want her to ever find out?

Ivy

Ivy Report 13 Feb 2010 11:00

Re date of birth - not sure that I saw my birth certificate until I applied for a passport (unless the bank made me produce one when first opening the account) - so would anyone have seen Jessie's birth certificate?

I ask, because my mother managed to lop two days off the birthday of her third child when the child was too young to challenge it (about 3 or 4 years old, I think) - if the eldest two had not vociferously denied it, she might have been celebrating the wrong birthday for years. If a mother can lose two days, what about the case where the mother has departed, and the aunt has to remember?

Ivy

Ivy Report 13 Feb 2010 10:54

In 1911, listed as Jessie Ralps at Wem age 16

(found using Jes* b 1896 +/- 3 yrs living Wem)