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Birth Certificates UPDATE

Page 9 + 1 of 14

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 25 Jan 2010 22:03

Marian, I'd stick with the cert for Thomas Tedstone first. Let's see what it says.

I know it all takes time, and is frustrating, but you can't go throwing money around without good reason.

No, his father probably won't be a policeman, but let's see.

MArgaret

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 27 Jan 2010 00:27

Marian, I don't mind it doin me ed in, keeps the ole grey matter in shape (I think!).

Can I recap the last few pages, now we are on different families?. It helps me, and it might help you. Shout if I have got anything wrong, but I have been as careful as I can be.

Our starting point now is the marriage of Thomas Tedstone and Mary Jane Bradford in 1892. Witnesses Benjamin and Mary Darwood. Thomas's father is Thomas, the policeman, which we doubt. I have squinted at this many times trying to make out a different occupation, it isn't 100% crystal clear, but it looks like policeman. If anyone can think of something different that it might be, please suggest.

We have only found one Thomas Tedstone b 1876. In 1871 he is with William 1821, Eliza 1822, Sarah 1855, Mary 1865, Robert 1863, Thomas 1867, these last two nephews. And in 1881 with the same family. The young boys may be cousins rather than brothers, according to the Ancestry tree.

Mary Tedstone who married Benjamin Darwood, is the one with Thomas in 1871. His cousin.

In 1887, Sarah Tedstone above married Charles Pressdee, had 2 children and died, cos in 1891 Charles is a widower, living with mother in law Eliza Letstone 71. In 1901 Eliza is with Benjamin Darwood and family, and still there in 1911. So that is that bit of the family.

So, is this Eliza Letstone the Elizabeth b 1822 that is in the Ancestry tree? I think not. That tree has her as daughter of John Tedstone and Charlotte Francis, and I think she is more likely the wife of William. In fact we have no indicatation that she is the daughter of John and Charlotte - do we?

Well, the next connection is the nephew/cousin Robert above, b 1863.

He could be the illegitimate son of Martha Tedstone b 1835, who later married William Jones and had children Charlotte Mary and Annie Lavinia. So then we set about finding Martha Tedstone 1835.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this one:

1871 England Census
about Martha Tedston
Name: Martha Tedston
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Aston On Clun, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Barton Upon Irwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Eccles
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district: Barton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 136
Household Members: Name Age
John Pearson 47
Catharine Pearson 42
Kate Pearson 7
William Pearson 6
Martha Tedston 32 b Aston on Clun
Mary A Radcliffe 13
Joseph Hall 21

Anyways up, these are the other Tedstone families found:

1841 Thomas Davies 30, Charlotte Davies 50, Martha Davis 6, William Tedstone 20, John Tedstone 15, Charlotte Tedstone 6.

Thomas Davies married Charlotte Tedstone 1836 - is this the above pair? She 20 years older than him?

1851 William Tedstone 30 (unm), Charlotte Davis mother 64, widow, Charlotte Tedstone 24 sister, Martha Tedstone 16, sister, Lueza Tedstone 2 niece. (daughter of Charlotte)

1861 Charlotte Davies 75, Martha Tedstone 25, William Harding 1, nephew
1861 William Griffiths 30, Charlotte 32 (m 1859), Lueza 12, Emily 6, John 9m
1861 William Tedstone 40, Eliza 38, Harriet Price 13, George Price 9, Sarah Tedstone 6.

1871 Not a lot of luck.

1881 William Jones 29, Martha 35 (nee Tedstone), Charlotte Mary 6, Annie Lavinia 3.

1891 William Jones 39, Martha 45, Charlotte 16, Annie 13, Harry Tedstone 9 nephew, George Warner 24, EDIT and Robert G Tedstone 28, Stepson.

Charlotte 16 is born Dunkinfield, could she be the illegitimate daughter of Martha born while she was a servant in Barton 1871+?

So this is now my understanding - shoot me down.

John Tedstone c 1790 m Charlotte Francis. Children William 1820, John 1824, Robert George 1826, Charlotte 1829, Martha 1855. EDIT I meant 1835.

William Tedstone m Eliza Price (when?), dau Sarah 1855 appears in 1861 only, dau Mary m Benjamin Darwood.

John Tedstone m Jane Harrington. Nothing more.

Robert George Tedstone m Jane Rack (married name), several kids, inc Robert George 1855.

Charlotte 1829 had Lucy 1849, Emily 1855, then m William Griffiths, two more children.

Martha had Robert George 1862, then married William Jones, children Charlotte M 1875, Annie Lavinia 1878.

There is just this oddity about Martha 1835. She is okay in 1841, 1851 and 1861, no sign in 1871 unless in Lancashire, and in 1881 has lost 10 years, which continues to be lost in 1891 when Robert George pitches up. I haven't found a marriage for William Jones and Martha Tedstone. Not found reasonable births of Charlotte M and Annie Lavinia either.

Well, that's me done in now!

Margaret

Mary

Mary Report 27 Jan 2010 13:09

Martha and william Jones daughter Charlotte mary 1875 Duckenfield in 1911 Edward Elcock 1878
Charlotte Mary 1875 Duckenfield married 12 years.
William Edward 1903 staffs
Mary Lavinia 1906 staffs
Louisa May 1908 staffs
Alfred James 1911 staffs.
In 1901 they were with Martha and William Jones they had Annie Elcock age 8months with them so maybe she died before 1911 census.

Annie Lavinia Jones married 1904 to Harold George Walker born 1880.
They had Kathleen a 1906
Joseph kenneth 1906 and in 1911 census they had a servant Martha Duce born 1893.

Maryb.

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 19:43

Right Margaret you`ve done a sterling job laying it all out, but have a couple of queries.

Martha b c1835 was I think born a Davies, daughter of Thomas Davies and not actually born a Tedstone. She is down as Tedstone from 1851, maybe she took on the surname of her stepbrothers and sisters.? Think the marriage i found before between Thomas Davies and Charlotte tetstone 1836 is the correct one, don`t think we should worry to much about the ages shown in 1841, with the age rounding up and down thing, and the 1841 Census not being very informative, think we should keep an open mind on it all.

Charlotte Tedstones age is obviously wrong in 1841 {6} as she is 24 in 1851 and 32 in 1861, she also has 2 year old daughter Lueza in 1851, possible but more unlikely if was she only 16 .....

The age of the Martha tedstone on Dunkinfield in 1871 fits pretty well with our Martha...there is also a Joseph Hall age 21 with the family........does he tie in with the Hall/Hadley family? Is this where the Accrington/Jennie Hall connection comes in?

Think we have the same Martha in 1871 and 1881, just think she dropped 10 years from her age because of husband being younger.

So we could do with finding Charlotte Tedstone/maybe Hall? b c1874 in 1881, shes not with Martha so where is she??

Enough to be getting on with for now I think....

Nicky


Mary

Mary Report 27 Jan 2010 19:56

Hi Nicky can you remind me about Charlotte Tedstone/Hall born 1874 without me having to trawl the pages.

Thankyou Maryb

Marian

Marian Report 27 Jan 2010 21:12

I don' t know what to say, I'm completely in awe of you all, bloody outsanding! I'm trying to keep up, got two days off tomorrow, it will be nice to have some interrupted time. Dont know if of any relevance, my uncle has said today that Annie Hadley and Jennie Bradford had a brother, don't know what to make of it. Thank you again. X

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 21:27

Well enjoy your 2 days off marian...plenty to keep you busy here.

Drew a bit of a blank on Joseph Hall born Ambleside Westmorland the other servant with Martha Tedstone in 1871., who I was hoping had a connection with the Hall family

It seems he`s Joseph Hale in 1881 and 1891 , married with 3 young children in 1881 and 3 more by 1891...can`t find him in 1901 and 1911....FMP won`t give me any results...playing up again.

Theres no sign of Charlotte, in fact can`t find any Charlotte born between 1874 and 1876 in Duckenfield/Dukinfield in 1881.

.

So found this marriage, the only Charlotte Tedstone marriage between 1895 and 1911.

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hawley Walter Samuel Birmingham 6d 8
Northwood Eva Birmingham 6d 8
TEDSTONE Charlotte Albertha Birmingham 6d 8
Titcumb William Margetts Birmingham 6d 8


Can`t find the marriage for a Charlotte Tedstone { presumed daughter of Martha} to Edward Elcock whos details were posted for 1911.......in fact can`t find an Edward Elcock marriage between 1895 and 1911 to anyone called Charlotte.

aaaarrrgggghhhhhh!!


Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 21:44

So this is the transcription for the 1901 census entry that Mary posted earlier.... Mary on your posting you put Charlotte Mary...I have checked the image and that just says Mary as well, am I missing something here?

JONES, William Head Married M 49 1852 Carter For The Corporation
Whittington
Salop VIEW
JONES, Martha Wife Married F 50 1851
Hope Say
Salop VIEW
ELCOCK, Edward Son-In-Law Married M 23 1878 Carter For Corporation
Penn
Staffordshire VIEW
ELCOCK, Mary Daughter Married F 25 1876
Dukenfield
Cheshire VIEW
ELCOCK, Annie Grand Daughter F 0 (8 DAYS) 1901
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire VIEW

So are we agreed this is Martha tedstone who married william Jones?........if so why has Charlotte suddenly become Mary? and there is no Edward Elcock marriage to a Mary between 1895 and 1911....


Nicky

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 27 Jan 2010 21:56

I will say one thing about this family, they certainly seemed to support each other. Siblings, nephews, step-children, illegitimate children, all living together at various times. Nobody seems to have been abandoned or side-lined. They must take the biscuit as one of the strongest families I have ever encountered.

I am going to read through Nicky's comments and edit my last post where possible.

Margaret

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 22:04

Just to say ,went off on a wrong tangent looking for Charlotte mary daughter of martha Tedstone, for some reason thought we hadn`t got her in 1881....re read again, and realised we had, but no reliable birth details.

still stuck with all those marriages though.......

Nicky

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 27 Jan 2010 22:08

Well, I said I would edit my post, but ran out of characters, so am going to do it again!!!!!!

Mary

Mary Report 27 Jan 2010 22:34

Charlotte Mary Jones 1875 Dukenfield Cheshire parents Martha (Tedstone) and William Jones .Married Edward John Ellcock 1898 in Wolverhampton 6b 1065.
1901 they are with Martha Jones nee (Tedstone) and William Jones,Charlotte is just Mary.

Maryb

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 27 Jan 2010 23:00

No I can't cope with it on screen, will have to resort to pen and paper to work it out, and you'll all have to put up with it for now!

But Nicky, I think you are right about Martha being a Davies.

Charlotte Tedstone, age 6 in 1841 could be a different Charlotte to the one age 24 in 1851. Heaven forbid. Could she be Fred Flintsone's daughter? (-: She could be a daughter who died and... no forget it, too complex, I can't cope!

We can possibly trace all this lot given time, but we need to know where Thomas Tedstone fits in really. Cos nobody seems to have a Thomas, other than as a nephew of William 1820.

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 23:04

Thank you Mary.....was spelling it with one L as per census...thats why I couldn`t find it...

Marriages Dec 1898 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ELLCOCK Edward John Wolverhampton 6b 1065
Furey James Wolverhampton 6b 1065
Jones Charlotte Mary Wolverhampton 6b 1065
Rushton Elizabeth Wolverhampton 6b 1065

Got the birth...so presume this rules out possibility of Charlotte Mary being illigitimate...

Births Dec 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Charlotte Mary Ashton 8d 507

Ashton covers Dunkinfield...


Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 23:15

Margaret, ...Do you remember about 50 posts back, Marian saying that Jessie Tedstone born 1892 was told she wasn`t one of "them" by her cousins, and didn`t share the same Grandma?......Well............ if Thomas 1867 is the father of Jessie and illigitimate son of Martha Tedstone{previously Davies} then the cousins were correct ...Jessie wasn`t really a Tedstone....which makes all our recent findings more plausible.......


Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 27 Jan 2010 23:28

Well looks like i could be correct about Martha really being a Davies....
Do you think this could be her marriage to William Jones..?

Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAVIES Martha Chester 8a 615
Jones William Chester 8a 615
LAMB Thomas Chester 8a 615
ROWLANDS Sarah Esther Chester 8a 615


Nicky

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 28 Jan 2010 03:26

Nicky.
Are you referring to page 10.?

Marions cousin who knew Jennie Hall ( called Grandma Hall) asked if she was her grandma too.Was told no she is no blood relative

Have I misunderstood. I thought that meant Jennie Hall wasnt a relative

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 28 Jan 2010 13:47

Quinsgran...... Yes prehaps your right and I`m wrong.... Jennie was`nt the blood relative, not Jessie.......theres so much information on this thread, that I think sometimes it all blurs together.

Margaret /Mad Meg has done a good job putting it all together....i think shes going to put a reveiwed one when she manages to make sense of it all......its going back through all the pages that frustrates me.


Nicky

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 28 Jan 2010 19:28

Like everyone else I am struggling, and also find it hard going back through the thread. So you'll have to wait for that revised summary till I have got it clear.

Just to say (back to Jennie Hall), I did wonder what Nicky meant by Jessie not being a Tedstone, I think Quinsgran has it right.

I've been in touch with Marian today. We now know that Robert Hall died in 1935 age 67, and is buried with three of his children in Accrington, but no wife in the grave, or any record of her buried at Accrington. Marian's uncle thinks she died in Colne and was about 80. He also thinks her real name was Mary Jane, but changed his mind when he realised that might mean she could be Jessie's mother. Hmm. But if you remember, the mother on the birth of Jessie Tedstone gave her name simply as Jane. I have found the death of a Jane Hall in Nelson, Dec 1952 age 77, and a Jane E in Sep 1951 age 77. Have emailed Pendle Cemeteries to see if either of these just might be the widow of Robert Hall, and possibly buried with her daughter Margaret (Blakeman) who died in Colne in 1938.

Will keep everyone informed.

Mary

Mary Report 28 Jan 2010 21:53

I still think Jennie Hall nee Bradford and Mary Jane Bradford are one in the same.It maybe just a case of her running away from everything after Thomas allegedly commited suicide.
She probably told Robert Hall a pack of lies but eventually wanted to be reunited with Jessie and that is why Jessie ended up with her.

This family seemed to like using there middle names rather than first.
So Mary Jane became Jane and then Jennie.

Either way it has kept many of us occupied over the past few weeks.

Maryb