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Irish surname

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

MargarettawasMargot

MargarettawasMargot Report 24 Jun 2013 10:12

My pleasure,Lynn.Good luck!! I hope you have some success.

Margot :-D :-D

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 23 Jun 2013 09:03

Good Morning Margot, and thank you for the advice. I hadn't heard of Curious Fox or Ireland-Reaching Out so will give them a try. Two Rossils (one of the many variant spellings!) called George and William of Ballintemple, Co. Wicklow appear in the Tithe Applotment in 1824, but am not sure what I do with that information. Once again, thanks for the tips which will give me the incentive to make one last push to find the origins of my illusive Great x 3 Grandfather!
Best wishes
Lynn

MargarettawasMargot

MargarettawasMargot Report 23 Jun 2013 08:30

You could try leaving messages on various sites-like Curious Fox and
Ireland-Reaching Out-see my posts above,for County Wicklow.Or even leaving a message for the whole of Ireland.The people on Ireland -Reaching Out are very helpful with links etc. and may be able to point you in the right direction.
Have you tried looking at the Griffiths valuations in Co.Wicklow,the Tithe Applotment books,the Flax Growers List of 1796 etc? You never know,you might find something, it may give you a starting point.

Good luck.

Margot.

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Jun 2013 18:47

No, I hadn't! Why didn't I think of that, such an easy thing to do. I've only looked on Genes and Ancestry which drew blanks. Thank you for that very helpful tip.

Maura

Maura Report 22 Jun 2013 18:40

Have you tried contacting the church where the children where baptised, for a marriage records.?

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Jun 2013 18:25

Sounds like a hopeless case Maura, especially with the variant spellings of the surname. I guess that I should be realistic and admit defeat. As for religion, the Rozzells I've found in Ireland were RC, but Roberts children in England were baptised in the protestant church causing me further confusion. The reason I don't have the name of his father is I can't find a marriage for him either and suspect that he didn't marry. My wee Great Grandfather x 3 certainly made sure he wasn't going to be found!

Maura

Maura Report 22 Jun 2013 18:14

Lynn without his father's name you will never find his baptism, and you would really need to know which county he came from. His name could be spelt loads of ways including Russell. The time frame your searching for have very little baptism records online. It alots depends on his religion. 70% of C.O.I. up to 1870 where destroyed in Dublin, but some churches kepted copies. Very few R.C. records exist for that time frame, due to the penal law and its the same with Presbyterian.

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Jun 2013 17:55

Thank you very much Maura. Interestingly, Robert named one of his sons George. Rossil isn't one of the variants (of which there are many) that I've searched under. I've now adapted my query and it's on Find Ancestors because I wasn't expecting a reply here so may get a hand slap through ignorance of the system! Once again thank you so much for taking the time to help. Best wishes from Lynn.

Maura

Maura Report 22 Jun 2013 17:46

Theres 2 Rossil appears in the Tithe apploment in Ballintemple Co Wicklow 1824, George & William
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Jun 2013 15:46

As you'll see from the date of this thread, I've been trying for almost two years to confirm the birth County of my Irish Great x 3 Grandfather Robert Rozzell born c1799. I've now identified several people of the same unusual surname who were all living in the same town of St. Helens, Lancashire around the same time but can't find birth details of any of these either! You'll note from other information of this old thread that County Wicklow appears to be a possibility, but I'm desperate to find evidence and am hopeful that now that I have other names someone may be able to point me in the right direction since I've tried numerous sites, including the Irish Family History Foundation. The people I can be reasonably confident were related to Robert are Lawrence Rozzell born c1796 (previously mentioned) who at one time lived next door to him a younger Robert Rozzell born 1841 in Ireland who in 1861 was boarding with one of Great x 3 Grandfather's daughters. Another strong possibility is John Rozelle born 1801 found residing in Kirkdale Gaol in 1841. I really have hit a brick wall and would welcome any guidance before I accept defeat and give up the search.

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Aug 2011 20:10

No, I hadn't, thank you. This not so common name appears to be more common. than I thought. I had already taken a guess at West Derby but it said that there was no record of this surname Obviously the extra L was the reason. Have looked at census and with that surname, living in the same area then they must surely be related. Once again, thank you so much for your help super sleuth.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 22 Aug 2011 18:09

Sorry Lynn..I sent this but obviously didnt come through....

Baptism: 31 Jan 1830 St Mary the Virgin, West Derby, Lancashire, England
Mary Rozzel - Daughter of Robert Rozzel & Ellen
Born: 26 Dec 1829
Abode: West Derby
Occupation: Glass Maker
Baptised by: Richard Gwillym
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1842, Page 118, Entry 942
Source: LDS Film 1546069

There is also a James Rozzell b Ireland 1833 on Prescot Census 1871..have you seen that..?

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 22 Aug 2011 16:52

Hello again,
Thanks for that. Isn't it interesting how names were reused in that way. It just wouldn't happen today. Am getting well used to records for Irish Ancesters not being available but have to say that you often amaze me by what you find. I suspect that Robert and Ellen married in England, but don't know for sure. Have sent for Sarah's birth certificate, so should get Ellen's maiden name from that. The search goes on! Have developed a real interest in Irish history through this process though.

p.s. which town was the St. Mary the Virgin Church in where you found the earlier births?

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 22 Aug 2011 11:45

Lynn....Robert and Ellen had a Mary b 1829 Dec. and a George b 1831 St Mary The Virgin Baptisms....Robert was listed as a "Glassmaker" for Mary and Laborer for Geo...No maiden name for Ellen...Cant find their marriage as Recs.aren't available..!
Looks like both may have died which accounts for another Mary and George later on...

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 21 Aug 2011 21:37

Dear Roy and Eringobragh,
Thank you both. Between the two of you I'm clear that the name is rooted in southern Ireland. By identifying that the surname was Anglo Norman, I've googled Anglo Normans and found that they arrived in Leinster from 1169 onwards. Also, Eringobragh having found others with the same name in Co. Wicklow confirms that this is the area. Your help has been much appreciated.

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 21 Aug 2011 20:10

Yes, I know quite a bit really. He married Ellen (?). They had 5 children, all born in West Derby, Lancashire - John (1833), Mary (1834), Ann (1836), Margaret (1838), Sarah* (1841) and George (1843).
In 1841, they were living at Swan Row, Derby. In 1851, Robert was a widower living in Prescot, Lancashire. It seems likely that Ellen died giving birth to George as his date of his birth and her death coincide.
Robert died in 1860 at the age of 61 in Prescot.

*Sarah you've helped me with in the past.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 21 Aug 2011 19:44

Lynn...Do you have anything else to go with the above info..?
Where did he end up...any family...?

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 21 Aug 2011 19:28

Was looking to see of I could find a birth record for Robert Rozzell born c1799, I know not where, other than Ireland.
I've also found a Lawrence Rozzell in the English Census, born 1796 in Ireland. Don't know if related, but highly likely.

Eringobragh1916

Eringobragh1916 Report 21 Aug 2011 19:27

Lynn...Who are you after wanting to find....?

Lyho47

Lyho47 Report 21 Aug 2011 19:24

The ever amazing Eringobragh appears once more. Thank you so much AGAIN. Your help is, as ever ,very much appreciated.
Regards,
Lynn