Genealogy Chat

Purpose of this thread is to provide an opportunity for anyone researching Welsh roots to ask for advice - whether it be the strange naming patterns, difficult to find place names or help with interpreting documents and gravestones. Anything that is causing you a problem in Wales.

And an opportunity for anyone with Welsh genealogical knowledge to help

I have researched in many parts of Wales and have some knowledge of the Welsh language. But suspect I will be asking for more advice than giving it.

john.
my hubby and children are all fluent welsh speakers,ive helped several genes members over the last few yrs,ive researched before work and during my lunch hr,got lots of info,all free of charge of course.x

Hylo Suzanne - croeso cynnes

Lovely to hear from you. My Welsh research is mainly on my wife's side. Her father was born in Holywell (roots were Llanarmon yn Ial and Criccieth). Her mother (still with us at 95) was Pendoylan in Vale (farming roots throughout the Vale stretching to the edge of the Valleys).

My father was a soldier from Wolverhampton who met my mother in Colwyn Bay in WW2. My grandfather was a hotelier in Rhos on Sea. Have lived in Bangor, Llanddulas and Whitchurch, Salop (right on Flints border). And now live in Rhondda and love it.

Let's hope we can help. I will probably need some help from you.
:-) Pob hwyl

Hello Karen

Reckon he may be death in Pontypridd Dec Q 1902 aged 82.

I know Dumfries St well. In fact, a good friend was born there in 1948 and later moved to nearby Blaenrhondda. If you look on Google, you will see main road runs north to south through Treorchy. Dumfries St is a long terrace to the east of main road. Ystrad Rhondda is now a town a couple of miles south of Treorchy, but in those early days, the whole of both Rhondda Valleys (Rhondda Fach and Rhondda Fawr were collectivey known as Ystrad Rhondda. More monoglot Welsh in 1850 than any other part of Wales - but the discovery of Rhondda steam coal soon put paid to a rural and isolated part of Wales and the population of the Rhondda was something like 150,000 at turn of century - much less today.

David DAVIES and wife Ann seem to have moved from Llansadwrrn area of Carms to Merthyr (then the biggest town in Wales) and were still in Merthyr in C1871.

Interesting that David's son in law Albert POTTER was born Llandinam in MGY. Now that is where the very famous David DAVIES Llandinam was born and raised (and died too - in nearby Plas Gregynog, I believe).

Hope that helps, Karen. Ref for ordering cert is Pontypridd Folio 11a Page 297 Dec Q 1902

Glad that was a help:-)
Not so easy now, Karen (assuming death for DD is right one.

Think it might be Ann DAVIES June 1893Q Pontypridd aged 67 11a 328

That would put her birth at 1825 (possibly 1826). She gives her birth variously as Llansadwn and a village (presumably nearby) called Llangedeyrn (not sure if I have that spelling right or where it might be exactly)

Have you got C1851 for them?

Penydarren, Merthyr
Elizabeth JONES, 50, widow, housekeeper, b Llangedeyrn, CAR
David JONES, son, 15, iron ore miner, b Llangedeyrn
Anne (sic) DAVIES, dau, 24, dressmaker, b Llangedeyrn
David DAVIES, son in law, 32, coal miner, b Llansadwrn, CAR
Mary DAVIES, g dau, 3, b Merthyr T
Philip, g son, 8 m, b Merthyr T

And in C1861 in Aberdare (Aberaman area) William DAVIES, brother of David and a collier, is living with David and Ann. He was 36, married, b Llansadwrn

So marriage would have been c 1846/47 probably and the Christian name Philip should prove significant going back. Address in C1861 looks like Lewis St, Fforchaman - I should know where that is, but cannot exactly place it - but all in the little Aman Valley area near Aberdare - Cwmaman (one of my favourite places), Aberaman etc.

Hi All

Here's one I have never cracked. Edmund MACK born c 1852 in Ynyscedwyn, Ystradgynlais, Glamorgan.

He was a policeman in north east England and died in Hendon near London in Dec Q of 1925 aged 73. One of his sons (known as Rees MACK) was a submarine pilot in WW1 working out of Barrow.

First time I can find Edmund MACK is in Renshaw, Co Durham in C1881, aged 28. After that his age and place of birth are pretty consistently the Ynyscedwyn area in about 1852. But no sign of him in C1861 or C1871.

So any early sightings of Edmund MACK would break down a big brick wall for me. I am guessing he may have been of an Irish background (no evidence for that) and the name wasn't MACK till he joined police in north east - but I may just have wrong glasses on. And he must have known Ysyscedwyn to have put that as his place of birth. And it looks like he could spell Welsh place names for the Geordie enumerators.

John,
Karen has put that Ann was on the 1901 census, so could not die in 1893?
Or does she mean 1891 census?
Is it a different Ann to the wife of the widowed David of 1901?

John do you have Edmund's father's name from Edmund's marriage cert?

Karen

C1891 in Dumfries St lists:

David DAVIES, 72, collier
Ann, 64
David GRIFFITHS, g son, 11, b Treorchy

In C1901 David is a widower, 81, living with Sarah Ann POTTER, his daughter in Dumfriest St. (see your first post)

Cheers John :-)

Rose, I am pretty sure (nay, 100% confident) I don't have marriage cert. I know it was about 1882 in north east.

Think, unless I am very lucky, I am going to have to go thru pennies drawer and buy that. Edmund Mack enters my family for very strange reasons (which I may tell you about ;-)

John :-D

Hi John,

What a lovely idea.

This is my brickwall, Eliza says she is born in Mordiford, Herefordshire in 1861 but that where she is living, she has died by 1871.

I know her maiden name is Davis and her father is Thomas but I have never been able to find her in 1841 for certain as the place recorded on the 1851 is as follows:

WEAVER, Eliza, Wife, Married, F. age 28, b1823 Domestic Duties

Born
Glace, Radnorshire

She married in 1842 Parish Church, Llanthew, Brecon, Wales but I have no idea what or where Glace is despite many hours of searching for her in 1841 and I am fairly sure it wasn't Mordiford where she was born.

I do know it's a tough one to solve.
I'm with Rose on your Edmund posting.

Kind regards
Amanda

hi again john

forgot to say that i live in anglesey n wales,so only can do research here at local archives, im not welsh,but hubby and children are,i get along fine with welsh place names and have some understanding of the language.
happy to help anyone who needs help for north wales.x :-D
dont come on the site much now,put happy to receive pm requesting help. :-D

Just putting the 1851 for reference:
1851 England Census
Eliza Weaver Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Weaver
Gender: F (Female) Where born: Glace, Radnorshire, Wales
Civil parish: Mordiford County/Island: Herefordshire Country: England Registration district: Hereford Sub-registration district: Dewchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b household schedule number: 7 Piece: 1977 Folio: 226 Page Number: 2
John Weaver 37
Eliza Weaver 20
James Weaver 8
Eliza Weaver 5
John Weaver 2
Silva Weaver 4 Mo
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1977; Folio: 226; Page: 2; GSU roll: 87378

Glascwm?.

Suzanne Anglesey - lovely place to live. Traeth Bychan barbecues, Church Bay.... (nostalgia for far off times). Think you might have volunteered yourself for a lot of work cos so many went from "Mam Cymru" to Liverpool and beyond :-D

Patchem - C1851 is a good base. Have got James b June 1843 Q , John Sept 48Q and Sylvia Mar 51Q. One further child Mary Ann Mar 55Q. All Hereford RD

Glace is not somewhere I know. There is a parish called Glascwm 7m s-w of New Radnor. THat could be "Glace", I suppose. It has a township called Vaynor-Glare, which mayt be Glare for short. But it does look like Glace, and I would have expected it to be much nearer English border - somewhere close to Hereford.

C1861 in Mordiford has her as 40, b Radnorshire (no help)
And C1871 has her husband John WEAVER, 56, in Mordiford with son John, 22 and Mary Ann, 16. No Eliza, no wife, but John is married!!

Guess is that Eliza is death in June 63Q Her (6a 328) and John is Sept 75 Q Her aged 62 (6a 324). Both probably buried in Mordiford.

Amanda - thanks for giving us a lovely problem:-) Couldn't find a marriage but had not looked at Breconshire. Sounds like you have marriage cert for Llanthew Church. Would it be possible to tell us full details of that - including witnesses, addresses, occupations, by License/Banns. In fact, anything that might provide the tiniest clue.

Sorry Patchem Missed that you had also guessed Glace to be Glascwm. Quite a lot of choice, and strange that we both went for Glascwm. What a remote area of Wales that is!

was sitting on the beach at church bay on fri.
live near holyhead in a place called valley,im a scouser,but came here age 10.
will help as much as i can when im not working. :-D

Suzanne - did you know that Liverpool was the biggest Welsh speaking place in the world 150 years ago. Big church was St Davids (now Adelphi) and loads of Welsh chapels. Have noticed that many from Merseyside who learn Welsh pick it up remarkably quickly and sound like real gogs in no time at all - perhaps in the genes?

Perhaps we should expand thread from Wales to include diaspora (particularly Merseyside born Welsh).

An alternative suggestion for Glace is :- CLAS, a township in the parish of St. Harmon, in the hundred of Rhayader, in the county of Radnor, 4 miles N. of Rhayader."

Silvia (dau of Eliza) born Mar 1851 is unusual and must be in families of either Thomas WEAVER of Eliza DAVIS in previous generation(s), I would have thought.

first heard welsh at the age of 5 in sefton park ,lots of shops and chapels ,i believe that old swan had the most welsh speakers in liverpool during the 60s?
funny i should move to wales and marry a welsh man.
its funny but even now the welsh still treat the english as foreigners,taking over there country and causing the language to die out,but a lot of them dont understand that there was more welsh in liverpool than scousers at one time. :-D

Alternative for Glace may be "CLAS, a township in the parish of St. Harmon, in the hundred of Rhayader, in the county of Radnor, 4 miles N. of Rhayader."