Genealogy Chat

Georgina Will have another look at Mary Jane Morgan this week. Quite a problem. Possibly elimination of all the wrong Mary Jane's might help.

Anne Holywell was a big parish. In 1831, 8969. Holywell was one of the "ancient parishes" of Flintshire. It originally comprised the townships of Holywell, Brynford, Bagillt Fawr, Bagillt Fechan, Calcot, Coleshill Fawr, Coleshill Fechan, Greenfield, Stokyn and Wellstone (or Trefynnon).

In 1901, it was 4972. But much of that was because a new Bagillt parish took the Bagillts and Coleshills away from Holywell. And I think Wellstone went into Brynford parish.

I feel sure MOSTYN is not a common name. So, yes, they may all be related. The main MOSTYN family were Roman Catholics and Holywell is still a Catholic pilgrimage centre - coaches, particularly from Merseyside. But all major Protestant denominations are there also.

Mold is very close. 8 minutes by car, less than an hour's walk. My wife's great grandfather managed lead mines in that area. He lived in Holywell, but would often walk to Ruthin and back via Mold in a day's work, visiting his mines. Probably 5 hours walking in typical 14 hour day. Less hours on Saturdays. Never worked Sundays. And he took 2 days holiday a year, when he went to Llandrindod to "take the waters". This was from 1870 till about 1920, though he had a pony and trap in latter years :-D

Thanks John

I shall keep looking also.

Georgina

Hi John,

Yep still don't know the answer, but Jackie kindly ruled out Glascwm.

Probably somewhere in Radnorshire but Davies isn't going to be easy.

I do wonder if those with the same surname where you found her in 1841 are her siblings

Kind regards
Amanda

Georgina

Have picked out a further 9 Mary Jane MORGANS to pursue.

But first one caught my eye and wonder what you think.

C1901 Kenfig Hill
Hopkin ROWLANDS, 33, b Ogmore Vale
Mary Ann, wife, 32, b Ogmore Vale
Mary Jane MORGAN, dau, 8, b Aberavon
Elizabeth M ROWLANDS, dau, 4, b Aberavon
Annie May ROWLANDS, dau, 1, b Port Talbot

Hopkin ROWLANDS married Mary Ann MORGANS (sic) in Dec q 1893 Neath

In C1891 there is a childless couple in Llangyfelach near Swansea. Thomas MORGANS, 23 and Mary Ann MORGANS 21. But she is born Morriston. And cannot find suitable death for Thomas either about 1894 aged 27. :-(

John

I keep coming back to the 1901 & 1881 census

1901
Thomas Morgan, 41, b Ystradyfodwg Glamorgan
(he is a widower at this point)
Lucy Morgan, daughter, 20, b Ystrad
Mary Morgan, 7
Rebecca Morgan 11
Thomas Morgan 16
Rebecca Walters, 72, mother in law b Llanwrdra Carmarthen

1881 shows Thomas married to
Rebecca, 21, born 1860

But in this one Thomas is born in Blaenycwm Treherbert.

In both he is shown as a coal miner & that is his occupation on the Marriage certificate of Mary & David. However, it only shows Mary (no Jane) on the 1901 census.

The 2nd one I have is:
1901
Thomas Morgan 32, b Brynaman Glam - Tin Plate Weigher
Rachel Morgan 28 b Cwmamman Carm
Mary J Morgan 7, b Brynaman Glam
Muriel Morgan 5, b Brynaman Glam
Edna Morgan 1 b Brynaman Glam

They also appear in the 1911 census along with 2 more children
Harriet Morgan 6, Brynamman Glam
Elgar Morgan 2 months, Brynamman Glam

There are several more, but without knowing Thomas' wife's name or at least the siblings, I just don't know!!! :-(

Onward.

Georgina

Georgina Mary Jane MORGAN!! I think we may see evidence of Rowland and Megan in her background. That is why I initially got quite excited she may have been brought up by a stepfather Hopkin ROWLANDS. And although it looks as if father Thomas MORGAN is stil laive in 1914, no reason why he couldn't have died when she was a baby. Often doesn't say "deceased" on marriage certs. Actual register entry in Welsh (not arrived yet) may give a clue to that.

Think it may all fit together when we get to right one, so will slowly work through main suspects.

Think I have got those two you listed to look at in more detail on my list of 8 possibilities. Also seen birthplaces of Caerphilly, Maerdy (top of Rhondda Fach as opposed to Blaencwm at top of Rhondda Fawr), Troed y Rhiw (near Aberfan - Taff valley?). But suppose she could have been born on Mars (though not spotted any coal up there yet)

John
Thanks for all your effort. I really appreciate it.

Georgina

Weekend already. Must trawl through the Mary Jane Morgans and see if anything else looks likely :-D :-D

Hope you all had a good week :-)

Have made a life-changing decision this morning.

Am going to remove myself for at least a year from any involvement in family history. Will still be on Genes but will have few records available to me as am cancelling all subs to family history sites - though I will stay on Genes as a fairly non-contributing member. And further letters about hot matches will probably not be answered very fully.

As far as this thread is concerned, I will watch it. But am unlikley to be able to help anybody significantly for at least next 12 months.

Many thanks to you all, and hope we meet up again soon. :-D :-D

John

Thanks for your interest in my problem. Sorry to see you go.

Georgina :-(

Thank you for your help John- sorry to see you go

kind regards

Anne

Ann Have reappeared. Hope this thread will be useful for others who want to ask Welsh related genealogical problems :-D

Really great to hear from you on here, Shaun.

Think between helpers on here there is quite a wealth of knowledge, and hope some more seek out help.

And possibly you may be able to descend from your mountain lair from time to time :-D :-D

hi
my brickwall is my great grandfather who i know as david thomas he married as thomas thomas and was enlisted ww1 as david thomas and is named as david thomas on childrens birth certs as you can imagine trying to find his birth cert is a headache,he was born 1876 in mountain ash married sarah lewis 1897 i have that cert says his father is john thomas and hes 21 so i know its 1876 but short of buying lots of certificates not sure what to do any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks karen

hi
my brickwall is my great grandfather who i know as david thomas he married as thomas thomas and was enlisted ww1 as david thomas and is named as david thomas on childrens birth certs as you can imagine trying to find his birth cert is a headache,he was born 1876 in mountain ash married sarah lewis 1897 i have that cert says his father is john thomas and hes 21 so i know its 1876 but short of buying lots of certificates not sure what to do any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks karen

Could you give the full details on the marriage certificate - address on marriage, occupations, witnesses?
Have you tried to find him on the censuses?
Thank-you

hi
the marriage cert
thomas thomas aged 21 batchelor coal hewer 2 tyla dowlais father john thomas coalminer
sarah lewis aged 19 spinster 3 tyla dowlais father john lewis deceased collery worker
its dated i think 19th june 1897 at the registry office in merthyr tydfil.
witness were john evans ,mary jones,elvira lewis.
i have hime as david thomas on 1901 as visitor with sarah and eldest son benjamin living at 20 arthur street mountain ash.
his parents are living at 15 arthur street mountain ash.
thanks
karen

Sorry if you know the geography well, Karen. But this may be of interest for background.

Arthur Street is on western side of the Cynon river, high above Miskin main street which is in the valley below. Arthut St is about a mile south of Mountain Ash town centre down a long and quite steep road going north from Arthur St called Llanwonno Road.

Arthur St is about the last street before you climb up into Perthcelyn on the mountain road to Llanwonno and across to the next valley to the west, which is Rhonnda Fach (the smaller of the two Rhondda valleys.

ok we did go there a couple of years ago was really hilly lol but someone had vandalised the cenotaph as we wanted to look at that too.
karen

Have unsubscribed from Ancestry and others so cannot help with search, Karen. But think possibly a good starting point would be to list detals about father's family and his family in 1901 census in Arthur St.

Then perhaps we can locate them on other censuses etc and try clear up whether he was John THOMAS or Thomas THOMAS or both John and Thomas.