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really stuck ! sarah bennett

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 2 Oct 2012 19:13

Christopher no one has added to the thread in over two weeks? I only looked at it now as I thought perhaps there had been an update...I don't believe any of my posts were back biting? Only giving advice on how to use Freebmd and on watermen/ lightermen in general. .


Christopher Report 2 Oct 2012 11:41

To all of the above researchers .

I suggest all the back biting now comes to a halt ,we all have to start somewhere in our research ,and of course we all make mistakes .

Try to be helpful & not so critical this is what GU is for


SylviaInCanada Report 13 Sep 2012 22:56

:-D :-D :-D :-D


JustJohn Report 13 Sep 2012 22:22

I said to a lady today "I am feeling my age. Age doesn't come by itself, you know"

Well, I expect you are a lot younger than me. How old are you?

I could see that she looked about 80, so I mischievously said "93".

Oh, she said, really disappointed. "I am 91. I must say, she continued, you look quite good for 93.

Yes I am 66, you naughty lot. But at least I can now say that I look quite good for 93. :-( :-(


SylviaInCanada Report 13 Sep 2012 17:35


You COULD delete that post ............

................ and so let Michelle have the fun of finding the information for herself. :-D

and that would also remove the names of possible living people from the thread.

That's what I would have done, had I made the error.

May I add that I very rarely give the birth dates from 1901, let alone 1930.

I have several relatives still alive who were born between 1924 and 1932.

I agree with Ginny .................... you don't look a day over 66 :-D


Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 13 Sep 2012 11:41

lol John, I do try and remember NOT to give people 'all the answers' ;-) it is very tempting when you are on a roll with someone else's ancestors to give them everything you come across but does sometimes take away from their pleasure in discovering the facts themselves....

I am still indebted to a helper on here when I first joined whose first piece of advice was on how to use Freebmd, and ditto to the person who advised 'googling' everything ( which I highly recommend for lightermen, and 'snippets' found in obsure places, my unknown gt uncle turned up that way on a site about barges moored on the census night far from their usuall location) :-D


Gins Report 13 Sep 2012 11:30


We dont have a 100 disclosure rule on BMDs in Eng/Wales but GR researchers respect the privacy of people who may still be living and dont post the details on this public site

We tend to send them by PM

You...49! I would have put you more like 66 :-D


JustJohn Report 13 Sep 2012 10:49

This 100 year guideline is so strange sometimes. As my elderly uncle says when he bangs up details all over the place about his relations - it is all on very accessible public record. Which is so true, Early on in my family history days (early 1980's) film stars used to hide their ages. I used to have fun finding out when and where they were born (nosey beggar that I am).

My mother was born Nov 1924 and father 1918 and both long dead, so forget how recent those days still are. But my mother in law was born 1917 and is still well and kicking. And an aunt who was born 1919 has insisted all her life it was 1925. And still (at 92) she insists she is 87. And so many are now living to over 100 and are still quite well and with it that 100 years may have to be pushed up to 110

Well, I am 49 and couldn't care less who knows it :-D :-D :-S


JustJohn Report 13 Sep 2012 10:34

Think Conyers Tobias Metcalf born 1781 is quite a long way from original question - though his grandson did marry gt grandma of Michelle.

But these lightermen do look interesting. Obviously an old and noble trade building up the Port of London and keeping shipwrecks and collisions to a minimum, and very skilled and appears to be quite well paid. I noticed on A**** (a competitor who can be named here :-D) that there are two indenture papers for sons of Conyers Tobias METCALF - William (who became a lighterman) and James (who became a card maker - think that's what it says). I can understand 7 years of little or no pay to become a skilled lighterman, but I would have thought card maker was a 2 day job to learn the ropes :-S :-S

They were all literate and had rather nice signatures.

Rose Not as subtle as you. Jump in and take consequences :-( Sorry, I sort of realised after I banged those names up that you were trying to lead us to the water. Have seen others do it and have thought - lazy whatsit. Give him or her the rest, now you have got that far. Apologies to others for my unsavoury thoughts. Hope I don't get an RRRR :-S :-S

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 13 Sep 2012 10:03

Hi Sylvia and John, did not stay on long last night, (had only just come home) but Sylvia is right in saying I was quickly giving the bare bones of how to search for births on Freebmd so Michelle can have the pleasure of 'discovery' :-) , and also thought it was possible they were still living , usually I err on the side of caution if people found are born after my mum lol 1920.


JustJohn Report 13 Sep 2012 09:01

The grandfather of Tory METCALF (first husband of Elizabeth Louisa WEAVER) was Conyers Tobias METCALF.

Conyers Tobias METCALF was a lighterman on Thames and was bt 2 Apr 1781 at St Botolph, Bishopsgate (born 5 Mar 1781). Parents Conyers Tobias and Isabella METCALF.

I am wondering if Tory (cannot find any likley birth and baptism for Tory METCALF in c 1851) might have been origially Toby. But it seems quite clear he is Tory or Torey on marriage lines, censuses etc. And his son was Tory also.


JustJohn Report 13 Sep 2012 08:24

Wondered about that, Sylvia. Apologies to Rose. Had not even thought about 100 years :-( :-( :-(

Oops :-S


SylviaInCanada Report 13 Sep 2012 00:44


RR was trying to help Michelle learn how to search on freebmd .......... by telling her how to search on there.

That is also considered part of what helpers do ............. teach people how to search for themselves. :-D

you've gorn and spoiled the lesson :-(

PLUS ..... those people could still be living, and it is an unwritten rule that one does not post bmd information for possibly living people on the open thread.

The odds are that someone will RR your post because of that.


Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 12 Sep 2012 22:51


If you go to and enter Ashman mothers maiden name Stratford and district Brentford ( where my family lived lol) you will get Harold Ashman and siblings.


JustJohn Report 12 Sep 2012 22:38

Found this on Ancestry

""elizabeth weaver married a tory metcalf on 10th september 1871. their children were emma matilda born 1872, mary ann born 1877 and tory born 1880 and possibly elizabeth born 1881/2. they all lived at 20 watney street and baptised at christ church, tower hamlets. elizabeths husband- tory died in december 1884 and she subsequently married a james bennett in 1887 and they lived at 3 steeles lane stepney with emma, mary anne, tory, elizabeth and there they had jane born 1888 , sarah born 1889 and alice born 1892. emma married a james winter on 13/9/1896, and sarah married a joseph perry in 1913. sarah and joseph evacuated to kew in the late 1930's and james winter whom i believe was widowed by then brought his 2 children nellie and ethel to kew and they lived with the perry's in the early 1940's. ""

Think the parents of Tory METCALF (1851-1884) will be William and Matilda.

Marriage at St Botolph without Aldgate on 12 Nov 1838

William METCALF, bach, full age, waterman, 12 Worley St, father Conyers Tobias METCALF, waterman
Matilda WILLIMETTS, spin, of full aged, father Edward WILLIMETTS, undertaker
Wit: Edward HILL, Hannah BLUNKERS

But I just cannot find a birth or baptism for a Tory MEDCALF or METCALF. Nor on C1861. Why would a 9 year old not be at home in C1861? Perhaps it was a nickname that he adopted as his real name.


michelle Report 12 Sep 2012 22:34

my mothers cousin just gave me som info but not about my nan ( sarah bennetts daughter). it is about my grandad - he was a twin apparentley and she died at birth - do i need to start a new thread for this i do not want to cause any stress

my nan - sarah perry, her mother sarah bennett
my nan married harold frederick james ashman. his sister was called iren ??


michelle Report 12 Sep 2012 22:07

my fear of water is bizarre then x i will definately look into this as it was the trade of my great grreat grandmothers first husband.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 12 Sep 2012 22:02

"a Waterman was someone licensed to navigate and pilot passenger vessels on the River Thames;
a Lighterman, on the other hand, worked on barges, carrying goods or wares up and down the river and from cargo ships to shore)"

I have both, and there are records of apprenticeships etc held at the Guildhall Library in London. It is an occupation that tended to run in families, the son might well be apprenticed to his father, or uncle, as is the case in my family. And you do find that offspring of watermen/lightermen also often married into other families of watermen/lightermen... it's also useful that they lived close to the river! so you can find little pockets of them on the census'.


michelle Report 12 Sep 2012 21:59

I am not sure, but will follow lead kindly given earlier from rambling rose to see what it entailed. Is tory a short/ nick name as i only know it as a short name for girls from victoria ?? my mums cousins also said that my great nans family were evacuated in war due to bombing next door - another little bit of info.


JustJohn Report 12 Sep 2012 21:48

Rose The first husband of Elizabeth Louisa WEAVER (mother of Sarah BENNETT born 1889) was Tory METCALF (or MEDCALF).

Never heard that name Tory before. He died Dec Q1884 and think he was 33, so born 1851 probably. His father was William METCALF, also a lighterman.

What exactly was a lighterman? Was it normally a job that would pass down from father to son?