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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Soppypaws Report 30 Sep 2012 07:50

Why is it the further you go back the Mother's name stops appearing on Birth's? How can you proceed without the names? :-S :-S :-S


brummiejan Report 30 Sep 2012 08:41

I assume you are referring to the birth indexes for England/Wales prior to end of 1911. It's just how it is. The name appears on birth certs though.
In some cases you can work out who the mother is if you find the couple on the 1911 census.


KathleenBell Report 30 Sep 2012 10:41

Mother's maiden names are not shown on the birth index before the 3rd qtr. of 1911 - however the full name of the mother is on the birth certificate.

Before 1911, as Jan has said you can look for the family on the census returns and when you find the name of the father and the mother's first name you can then look for a marriage for the couple.

Kath. x


Soppypaws Report 30 Sep 2012 22:12

Thank You Ladies, I've only been doing this a few days <3


Reggie Report 30 Sep 2012 23:29

The mother's maiden name is always on the just wasn't included in the index before the latter part of 1911

Similarly, the spouse's name isn't on the index of marriages for the same time-scale


Soppypaws Report 1 Oct 2012 03:35

Thanks, yeah I noticed that too Reg.

QUESTION 2. My Great Nan had 10 Children but 2 (twins) died. I don't know why or what of. Should I go to Parish records for this? I don't know their names so cannot go to Deaths.

QUESTION 3. When will the 2011 Census be out and will we be able to find Household Transcriptions on that too, only it makes things alot easier?

Best Wishes
Lee :-D


SylviaInCanada Report 1 Oct 2012 06:30

Do you know your gr gran's married name??

Do you know roughly when the babies were born???

Do you know roughly where they might have been born?

If they were stillborn, there will be NO record

but if they took even one breath, then there should be a birth registration and a death registration


look FIRST for the deaths of babies aged 0 in the relevant time period and place.

Then see if you can connect them up with a birth registration.



Soppypaws Report 1 Oct 2012 07:00

Hi Sylvia, Her name was Bessie Downer nee Simmons and married to William Edward Downer in 1928.
They had: Bessie, Edith, Gladys, John, Billy, Sydney, Irene and Alan plus twins. They were pretty close together but there is a large gap between say 1939 and 1949. They would have been born in Shoreditch or Hackney and I think they survived a brief while??????

Lee x


Soppypaws Report 1 Oct 2012 07:03

Sorry between 1941 and 49. Between Sydney and Alan.


K Report 1 Oct 2012 09:31

The 2011 census individual household transcriptions are not normally released for a hundred years to preserve peoples privacy.

One of the siblings seems to have been registered with the maiden name of Simmonds rather than Simmons, but I can't see a birth or death record for the twins. They may have been still born


Soppypaws Report 1 Oct 2012 13:55

Hi K, It should be under Downer. I found a Carole A Downer aged 0 in 1945 but don't know where the Twin is :-S


K Report 1 Oct 2012 14:44

The siblings are registered under the name of Downer but the only way to tell their births for others is the mother's maiden name of Simmons or in one case Simmonds.

The death of Caroline that you found in Islington appears to have been born the previous year with mother's maiden name of Verwymeren so she is not one of the siblings. If you search on births under the surname Downer and maiden name Simmon(d)s you will only come up with the names you listed, although there are a few born in the Isle of Wight that appear to be unrelated.

If there is no listing of the births of the twins (still born??) there would be no record of their deaths other than the still birth register which I understand started about 1927 and is not online


Soppypaws Report 2 Oct 2012 05:09

Thank you K that's really interesting. I spoke to my Nan again today who was born in 1930 and she remembers it, she said she was sure one lived a few hours but one was stillborn. Still a bit iffy though.

Lee <3


Reggie Report 2 Oct 2012 10:33

WW2 was happening between 1939 and 1945!

Census records are not released until at least 100 years after the records are collected.

1921 - due out c2022

1931..does not exist

1941.....not taken......WW2 was in progress


KenSE Report 2 Oct 2012 14:59

As there was a war on is it possible that the twins were not William's? If that was the case they should have been registerd as Downer but maybe they weren't. They might not even have died but been adopted instead.