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Military records-leave dates?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Sandra

Sandra Report 21 Oct 2012 18:08

Hi how can I find out what dates a soldier was on leave for in 1916 during WW1? . I am new to all of this so would welcome some guidance. Thank you

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 21 Oct 2012 18:18

Not sure about that specific bit of info Sandra, but the remaining WW1 records are on Ancestry, so we need to locate them if they exist. Sadly about 70% were lost during WW2.
If you wish to put all details you have about him we can have a look.
It might also help if you say where the child was born - if he was a local he might be on1911 census, worth a try.
Jan

Jonesey

Jonesey Report 21 Oct 2012 19:21

If his service record has survived then it should indicate whether he was stationed in the UK or based in France/Belgium at the time when the child was conceived.

If a search for a soldiers service records fails to turn them up it is often worth searching WW1 Pension records as sometimes you will find a soldiers service record there. In either case it is unlikely that short periods of leave would be show amongst the record.

You state that the father wasn't named on the birth certificate but that the child was registered (Presumably) in the soldiers name by his wife. Under normal circumstances if a birth was registered by the child's mother she would be asked for her husbands name who, unless the mother stated differently, would be entered on the birth certificate as the child's father even though he may not have been. It is very unusual for no father to be named on a birth certificate if the mother was married at the time of birth.

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 21 Oct 2012 19:33

Just a note,

If a woman has a child the surname on the birth cert would be her surname at the time of birth plus any previous names she has been known by such as her maiden name

so in your case the child was registered in the mothers surname and because the father was not named it looks like the child was not her husbands child

For info on BMD certs see http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm

Roy

Sandra

Sandra Report 24 Oct 2012 07:27

Thank you for your replies.

Re my search for military records. I have bought the record that came up on the national archives search but it seems to be just medals and its hard to work out any info from it and certainly nothing about his leave.
Thanks again

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Oct 2012 10:55

Yes, they would have various periods of leave. The full service record normally lists their postings including home leave. I've found that many records show that a man voluntarily enlisted in 1914, but were on 'Home leave' until 1915 or later.

As your possible relative had previously been in the Army, he is likely to have been in the Reserves, and one of the first to have been called up.

Unfortunately it comes down to what Brummiejan said earlier
*Sadly about 70% were lost during WW2* during bombing.

Perhaps those with more in-depth knowledge of military matters can offer some guidance on contacting his original regiment and what, if any, personnel records they may hold?

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 24 Oct 2012 11:59

Just a personal view!
As he was already married to the child's mother then it seems a bit strange for his name to be left off the birth cert. You would expect the child to have the current surname of her mother in any case, i.e. her married name, so it doesn't signify that he is the father.
My feeling is that this is another man's child, particularly given the fact that she was sent to live with another family member.
Jan

ElizabethK

ElizabethK Report 24 Oct 2012 15:16

Just wondering....

Do you know if the chap survived WW1 and the marriage continued ?

If the marriage was anulled for instance would the the birth certicate be amended and would there be two BMD entries ?

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 24 Oct 2012 16:35

His Medal Card might have been on Ancestry, can you give us the Regiment and Number?...

Chris :)

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 24 Oct 2012 17:04

Was the daughter baptised in her birth name?
Sometimes a father of an illegitimate child will be named in the church register.

Gwyn

Sandra

Sandra Report 24 Oct 2012 19:55

Regarding his military number -I am assuming this is him as a man with his name signed up for the Royal Scots Durham Light Infantry as a Private on 19/12/1914, (t also in Durham which is why I am assuming it is the same person) On the card that I bought from national archives the registration number is 3867 80041


best wishes and thanks again

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 24 Oct 2012 20:37

Boer War 1899-1902 - Soldier details
Name: BAIN, P
Rank: Private
Soldier number: 7568
Unit: 1 Battalion The Gordon Highlanders
Notes:
Age:
Literary references:
Medal roll (from National Archives WO100 series):
Roll Page
203 0

(can see the above, Find My Past)

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: Peter Bain
Regiment or Corps: Royal Scots, Durham Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 3867, 80041

(in case anybody can decipher!)

Chris :)

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Oct 2012 07:35

The Service Record for the Peter Bain found by Chris is on Ancestry

Peter Bain

Regimental Number:- 3867


British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about Peter Bain

Name: Peter Bain
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Age at enlistment: 42
Birth Parish: St Giles
Birth County: Midlothian
Document Year: 1916
Regimental Number: 3867
Regiment Name: Royal Scots
Number of images: 14


Second number of shown on his discharge paper


Lots of it fit Sandra's Peter ..............................

Previously served in 3rd Batt Royal Scots Des. T.E. 16 July 1912

Joined 5/9/14

Posted 15/12/14

Kept losing pay for being absent .......... usually 1 day, but lost 6 days pay in March 1916, 8 days in June 1916, etc etc


THEN it turns out his wife is called Margaret Bain. Address:- 7 St Andrews St, Leith. Maiden name Glancy. Married South Leith. (part of the page with the date on has been burnt off).

and apparently 2 children, 1 born in 1905 and 1 in 1907. Both born in South Leith



I don't know what to think!!!!!

Sandra

Sandra Report 25 Oct 2012 19:45

Thank you boyj
I think I have just managed to decipher the words underneath which are IRON MOULDER and I am pretty sure I found someone with his name with that profession in Scotland when seaching myself..

According to the marriage cert he has a father who was Alexander, deceased of the 42nd Royal Highlanders.



thank you again to you all.
Sandra


greyghost

greyghost Report 25 Oct 2012 20:53

This I think is your Boer War Peter (b 1778/9) It is his Militia Attestation papers

British Army Service Records 1760-1915 Transcription

First name(s): Peter
Last name: BAIN
Calculated year of birth: 1879
Parish of birth: Falkirk
Town of birth: Falkirk
County of birth: Stirlingshire
Age at attestation: 20 years
Attestation date: 14 July 1899
Attestation corps: A & S HRS
Attestation soldier number: 3846
Discharge rank:
Discharge corps: Argyll And Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise's) - 91st & 93rd Foot
Discharge soldier number:
The National Archives reference: WO96 / 1174 / 263
There are 4 images available for this soldier

His trade at attestation is Moulder, working for (I think) Callender Iron Company in Falkirk.


Apparent age 20 years 5feet 81/2 in 133pounds weight Chest 341/2 inches, expands to 361/2 inches.
Fresh complexion, Brown eyes, dark Brown hair. Presbyterian religion has yes by it .
? P and numerous small dots tattooed on left forearm.
Considered fit for Militia

Served 3rd Batallion Argylle and Sutherland Highlanders
Embodied (?Called for service I think) 23.1.1900,, Disembodied (Discharged ?) 4.12 1900
Embodied 6.1.1902, Disembodied 28.9.1902
War Gratuity paid 31.7.1902
Gratuity issued under demobilization Reg (South Africa) 30.10.02

Total Embodied service 576 days. Exempt 03
Discharged totally unfit in rank of Private 4.7.1904

5th image is of a virtually blank page apart from a handwritten address
Alma Bank
Grahamstown
Falkirk
under which it says South Africa 1.2.02

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 25 Oct 2012 21:43

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


curioser and curioser!!


The Peter Bain for whom I found the Service record has the following information ....


Peter Bain
Service Number:- 3867; 80041
5' 5½"
161 lbs
Chest 37"; fully expanded 40"
Eyes Blue
Hair Reddish-Brown

Tattoo on both forearms
MB tattooed on back of right forearm

Roman Catholic

declared fit for service 5th Sept 1914, at Leith

Discharged from Durham Light Infantry 20 March 1919 ...... and his marital status on discharge is shown as SINGLE


He went overseas to France on 19 Dec 1914



BUT his occupation was General Labourer, and he is about 5 years older




sylvia

Sandra

Sandra Report 25 Oct 2012 22:07

Oh Gosh, this is so interesting. I took a guess that the Durham Light infantry Peter was the same man but maybe I was making wrong assumptions.

regarding the physical description - can I ask which site had that informaiton on it please?

Many thanks to you both

Sandra

Sandra Report 25 Oct 2012 22:10

PS what do you think
Discharged totally unfit in rank of Private 4.7.1904 means? ' Not suitable' or injured?

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 25 Oct 2012 22:23

Discharged totally unfit in rank of Private 4.7.1904

As he was Considered fit for Militia on joining then it would mean that he was unfit to carry out his duties as a private soldier

In those days it would be either through injury or sickness that he was not expected to fully recover from

Roy