Genealogy Chat

James Cotton, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: James Cotton
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Susannah Rattle
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 06 Aug 1844
Event Place: Saint Matthew,Bethnal Green,London,England
Father's Name: Richard Cotton
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: John Agace
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M04698-7
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 849422
Reference ID:

Hi safc,

Thank you, that seems to be her marrying Mr Cotton - I did have a hand-written note (after viewing FreeBMD) that maybe the 1844 marriage was the daughter Susannah getting married, but the father's name Agace made me realise it had to be the mother remarrying.

J-A

I would be interested to see where you go with this .

I have

MARY RATTLE Pedigree
Christening: MAY 1778 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London, England
Parents:
Father: CHARLES RATTLE Family
Mother: SARAH

Extracted birth
C025574

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Day: 17
Month: 5
Year: 1778
Forename: Mary
Surname: Rattle

Fathers forenames: Charles
Mothers forenames: Sarah
Birth date:
Address: Ch Lane
Location of church: Whitechapel
Parish: St Mary
Church address: Whitechapel Road
Entry No: 2823
Source Ref: X024/089

so same area but a little earlier.

Is this a sibling to James?

Parish Record Collection - Baptism Record
Surname: Rattle
Forenames: Jane Elizabeth
Baptism Year: 1830
Baptism Month: OCT
Baptism Day: 25
Mother: Susanna
Father: John
Place: Stepney
County: Middlesex
Source: St.Dunstan Stepney 1826-1832 baptisms
Record source: Thames & Medway Baptisms
Data provider: Rob Cottrell, Trueflare Limited

Could this be her in 1861:


Name:
Susanah Ratle
[Susanah Rattle]

Age:66
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1795
Relation:Mother
Gender:Female
Where born:London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish:Bethnal Green St Matthew
Ecclesiastical parish:St John


George Wall 57
Betsy Wall 54
George Wall 16
John Ratle 38
Susanah Ratle 66 b

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Susan Agace
Name: Susan Agace
Spouse Name: John Rattle
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Jan 1818
Parish: St Mary Stratford Bow
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Register

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 about Susanna Agace
Name: Susanna Agace
Baptism Date: 25 Sep 1796
Parish: St Anne, Limehouse
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parent(s): John Elizh
Record Type: Baptism
Register Type: Parish Register

Beat me to it, LadyK!

John is shown as a carpenter and her birth given as 21st April.

In the 1861 John and Susanah are shown as a separate household on the image, so probably no connection to the Walls.

Several trees on Ancestry have this marriage for her parents:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Elizabeth Crish

Name:Elizabeth Crish
Spouse Name:John Agace
Record Type:Banns
Event Date:7 May 1778

Parish:
Limehouse St Anne

Borough:
Tower Hamlets

Register Type:
Parish Register

If this is the baptism for the oldest daughter then we may be able to find apprentice records for her father.

Parish Record Collection - Baptism Record

Print Close
Day: 30
Month: December
Year: 1818
Forename: Susannah
Othernames:
Surname: Rattle
Fathers forenames: John
Fathers occupation: Ship Wright
Mothers forenames: Susannah
Birth date: 02/12/1818
Address: Limehouse
Location of church: Limehouse
Parish: St Anne
Church address: Commercial Road
Entry No: 1637
Source Ref: X097/299
Transcriber Note:
Original Note:
Record source: Docklands Ancestors
Data provider: Docklands Ancestors Ltd

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 about John Saml Rattle
Name: John Saml Rattle
Baptism Date: 14 Jun 1795
Parish: St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parent(s): John Rattle,
Jane Rattle
Record Type: Christening
Register Type: Parish Register

He was 103 days old.

brother to John Samuel?

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 about James Rattle
Name: James Rattle
Baptism Date: 5 Feb 1797
Parish: St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parent(s): John Rattle,
Jane Rattle
Record Type: Christening
Register Type: Parish Register

London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 about James Rattle
Name: James Rattle
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1828
Burial Date: 27 Apr 1828
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1798
Parish or Poor Law Union: Limehouse St Anne
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Register

Afternoon Lady Kira and Potty

I have just got home and seen all the new posts. Thank you, so now what do I think....

Yes very interesting about Mary Rattle baptism 1778 - I would be surprised if she does not connect somewhere into the Rattles I already have. Earlier in my Rattle searching I found a marriage for a Jane Elizabeth (seems to have married John Stokes? aged 23 in 1853) and her father is shown as John Rattle (Shipwright), and suspected she was related now I agree she must be his sister. The Susannah born in 1818 to John and Susan also fits well and the baptisms tie them in.

Very interested in the baptism of John Saml Rattle with parents John and Jane, as Jane as a name appears for the descendants, and that definitely looks like Susannah with son John on the 1861 Census Potty,

Lots to play around with now.

Thank you

J-A

I have found nothing on my Charles and Sarah.

One tree on Ancestry has her as Sarah Manley
and another gives an exact date of birth for Charles but nothing to confirm that.

I have no siblings for Mary who ends up in the Greenwich Deptford area.

1841 Institution: Poplar Union Workhouse,
RATTLE, John M 70 1771


hmmmmm

Exactly LadyKira - hmmm

So, a connection is needed then to see if Mary 1778, daughter of Charles and Sarah, can be connected to John (who married Jane) parents of John Saml Rattle born in 1795 - and very likely that the John b 1771 and in the Poplar Union Workhouse is the same John (also seen a Poplar death for a John Rattle in 1846).

So was John (1771) born outside London perhaps? If he is sibling to Mary (1778) did the family come to London (Whitechapel), and then move closer to the River for work - Limehouse/Stepney.

You said you have Mary ending up in Greenwich/Deptford area - which is just across the River and I have my James Rattle (1825) in Rotherhithe in 1861and his brothers Charles and Joseph in Bermondsey in 1871 (with their families) - Joseph then moves back to Stepney by 1881 Census. So they are still fairly close to each other - just on opposite sides of the River, and it makes sense as they seem to work as Ropemakers, Dock Labourers.

Another Rattle - may or may not be connected, is one shown in the Thames watermen and lightermen (1688-2010) - Henry Samuel Rattle, Year of Event 1896 and Place Gravesend - I am just looking at any connected to the River!

J-A

Just seen an Ancestry tree with Mary 1777.
It has her parenst as Charles and Sarah Jane born1860's.
Think I will give that tree a miss.

I have a Charles and Sarah Jane (Jewell) - they married in 1882 - his grandmother was Susannah (Agace) Rattle, that tree on Ancestry is upside down at the very least!

So hey mixed your Charles with my Charles a century apart.
LOL