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New to searching - help needed please

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 19:56

Hi Hopefully this is the right place if not i am sorry!

I have generated a little of my family tree and have found my great grandma and her sisters & brothers but would like to find there partners and children and then there children, is there an easy way to do this??

I am confused and have tried to search please help x

patchem

patchem Report 9 Nov 2012 20:00

Where have you found your great grandma?
How did you get back to her if you have not found her children?
Possibly you could look for a book from the library, or a magazine, to tell you the absolute basics to get started.

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 9 Nov 2012 20:06

Patchem, I think Shelly might mean she wishes to find partners/children of her Grandmother's siblings??
Shelly, have you looked for the brothers on later census returns?
Depending on how common the names are, you might try Freebmd for marriages, if you haven't already. Also good to pin down birth entries as they might have middle names which will help you.
Jan

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 20:08

My Grandad was given so much of his family tree for his 80th Birthday, which showed his mum and her family sisters and brother.

i have now found some of the wives and husbands how would i go about finding there Children though.

your help advise is greatly received x

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 9 Nov 2012 20:12

You need to locate these families on a census - without this I think you will struggle. Who supplied the family tree?
Have you got a sub to a site such as Freebmd or Ancestry? If not, either do this or put some details on here and those of us with subs can help out.
You can access Ancestry library version at your library (obviously!) which might be a start.
Jan

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 20:22

thank you so much, I do mean My Great grandma's, brother and sister children.

I will have a look at Freebmd and Ancestry.

the surname Coathup was very popular in the Wirral/Cheshire area.

it has come about as my great grandma died when my grandad was a month old, he did not even know her name which my uncle had a lady look into and Found to be Annie Coathup 1900 - 1932, married Alexander Armour 1900 -1983.

I have found all the information i think I possibly can about Annie, even where she is buried even though she is in a Pauper's grave, I finely found her resting place after a long battle with wirral council. My Grandad feels at peace now over her.

any help would be very, very much gratefully received xx

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 20:38

i have an example of who I am now searching for

Jessie Coathup born 1899
married
Edward Dunwoodie born 1900

Marriage record shows 1925

Jessie died 1980
Edward died 1972

Lynski

Lynski Report 9 Nov 2012 20:45

Jessie in 1911????

COATHUP, George Head Married M 74 1837 Farm Labourer Burton Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Sarah Wife Married45 years F 63 1848 Braddon Isle of Man VIEW
COATHUP, George James Son Married M 39 1872 General Labourer Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Emily Daughter In Law Married12 years F 36 1875 Spital Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Jessie Daughter F 11 1900 School Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Annie Daughter F 10 1901 Spital Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Alfred John Son M 9 1902 School Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Louisa Daughter F 7 1904 School Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, George James Son M 6 1905 School Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Emmie Daughter F 5 1906 School Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Maursey Son M 2 1909 Bebington Cheshire VIEW
COATHUP, Leslie Son M 0 (8 MONTHS) 1911 Bebington Cheshire VIEW

RG number: RG14
Piece: 21927
Reference: RG14PN21927 RG78PN1306 RD451 SD3 ED1 SN71
Registration District: Wirral
Sub District: Bebington
Enumeration District: 1
Parish: Lower Bebington
Address: 3 Home Farm Yard Lower Bebington Cheshire
County: Cheshire

George and Sarah had 5 children, 2 died
Emily and George James had 9 children, 1 died

Lynski

Lynski Report 9 Nov 2012 20:53

Edward in 1901????

LUCHMAN, John Head Married M 33 1868 Cycle Machinist Coventry, Warwickshire VIEW
LUCHMAN, Elizabeth Wife Married F 33 1868 Coventry, Warwickshire VIEW
DUNWOODIE, Robert Boarder Married M 23 1878 Coach Builder's Labourer Scotland VIEW
DUNWOODIE, Ellen Boarder Married F 19 1882 L'pool, Lancashire VIEW
DUNWOODIE, Edward Boarder M 1 1900 Barrow in Furness, Lancashire VIEW
LUCHMAN, John J Son M 1 1900 L'pool, Lancashire VIEW

Piece: 3489
Folio: 55
Page: 8
Registration District: West Derby
Civil Parish: West Derby
Municipal Borough:
Address: 24, Bective Street, West Derby
County: Lancashire


Do you have the marriage certificate for Jessie and Edward to check their fathers names?


Marriages Dec 1925 (>99%)
Coathup Jessie Dunwoodie Birkenhead 8a 1113
Dunwoodie Edward H Coathup Birkenhead 8a 1113


Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Dunwoodie Edward Hunter Barrow F. 8e 869

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 21:01

that is Jessie but her year of birth is wrong as is Annie's

Jessie was born in 1899
Annie was born in 1900

i have these records from the library x

shelly

shelly Report 9 Nov 2012 21:03

that is definitively Edward to that is as far as i can get though,

how do i go about then finding their children? x

patchem

patchem Report 9 Nov 2012 21:13

You look on free bmd for children born from the marriage i.e. surname Dunwoodie, Mother's maiden name Coathup.
(I can see 3 born in Birkenhead)

Have you got the death certificates of Jessie and Edward to see who the informants were, for more information?

The records on free bmd do not go as far as those on ancestry, and so you will need ancestry for later information.

Have you looked to see if anyone on here has any of the family in their trees?

Andysmum

Andysmum Report 9 Nov 2012 22:05

Years of birth on transcriptions are often a year out, as they are calculated by subtracting the age given from the year of the census.

So, Jessie is 11 in 1911, and the automatic subtraction makes her born in 1900, when she could actually be born any time between April 1899 and March 1900.

Reggie

Reggie Report 9 Nov 2012 22:09

For marriages/children look at.........

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

For events after 1911, the spouse's surname is recorded for marriages, as is the mother's maiden name for births,

So you'll have no trouble finding births for Jessie/Edward........if there were any

Shelly................

You must understand that the estimated birth year quoted on census returns is based on the child's age at the time.

For example............1911 census was taken 31st March.

A child aged 10 would have been born between 1st April 1900 and 31st March 1901

Does that help you to understand why you think the birth years are 'wrong'...........which, in fact, they aren't, as they are always shown as 'estimated'

Just consider your own age.............how would your birth year and age look to a researcher if a census return taken today for you were to be accessed in 100 years' time?

LindaB

LindaB Report 10 Nov 2012 03:56


The free CheshireBMD site will be useful to use Shelley...

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/

Linda

shelly

shelly Report 11 Nov 2012 18:02

thank you all for your help, going to look properly tonight x

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Nov 2012 02:31

FreeBMD has transcribed most of the printed GRO index thru the 1950s.
However, 20% of quarters for births in 1940s and 1950s are incomplete.
My preference is to search first on FreeBMD as it's easy to copy & paste the hits of interest onto some text document.
Then I'ld redo the search on Ancestry - it's free to do this, but it doesn't show all the details directly.
If there are more hits, click on the shopping basket, and note those details down.
You won't get some details, like mum's Maiden Surname on births, spouse's surname on marrs, and age/d.o.b. on deaths.
However, take the "view image" link on FreeBMD's home page, and you can get these things thru 1983 with a bit of pain, even if FreeBMD hasn't transcribed them yet.

***Don't use the shopping basket to order any BMD certs - there's a hefty charge for their ordering the cert for you.
If you need a cert, order it directly thru the GRO via:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

After you've gotten a hit on FreeBMD/Ancestry, check if there's a local index for that hit, at: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
The local indexes don't index with the same info as the GRO index - here's some examples:

Births Mar 1900 (>99%)
Dunwoodie Edward Hunter Barrow F. 8e 869

Cumbria Birth indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
DUNWOODIE Edward Hunter Barrow Barrow DUMBELL B/84/187


Marriages Dec 1925 (>99%)
Coathup Jessie Dunwoodie Birkenhead 8a 1113
Dunwoodie Edward H Coathup Birkenhead 8a 1113

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1925
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COATHUP Jessie DUNWOODIE Edward Hunter Birkenhead, Civil Marriage Wirral BW/132/40


Marriages Mar 1899 (>99%)
Coathup George James Liverpool 8b 113
DAVIES Emily Liverpool 8b 113

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1899
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COATHUP George J DAVIES Emily Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool 2053LP/85/428
[I think you'll need this m.cert to take Emily's line back, or maybe it's at Ancestry's Liverpool parish records]

Marriages Sep 1925 (>99%)
Coathup George J Shakeshaft Birkenhead 8a 1353
SHAKESHAFT Catherine E L Coathup Birkenhead 8a 1353

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1925
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COATHUP George James SHAKESHAFT Catherine Elizabeth Lee Rock Ferry, St Peter Wirral BK15/4/458
[check https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ39-JY8 ]


1911 says 9 kids born - 1 died, so that would be Ernest:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F352-MQD

Births Sep 1907 (>99%)
COATHUP Ernest Wirral 8a 419

Deaths Dec 1907 (>99%)
COATHUP Ernest 0 Wirral 8a 272

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
COATHUP Ernest Bebington Wirral DAVIES BEB/12/48

Cheshire Death indexes for the years: 1907
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
COATHUP Ernest 0 Bebington Wirral BEB/6/76

Annie: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F352-DRC

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Nov 2012 02:39

I know your interest now is going forward with George and Emily's kids, but if you ever decided to go back, then there's other sites of interest.
There are several collections at:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

Take Annie's gran:
name: Sarah Ann Fick
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 11 Jan 1846
baptism/christening place: BRADDAN,ISLE OF MAN,ENGLAND
father's name: James Fick
mother's name: Margaret Kewley
indexing project (batch) number: C03802-1
system origin: Isle_Of_Man-ODM
source film number: 106708
reference number:
Citing this Record
"Isle of Man, Births and Baptisms, 1821-1911," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X5P7-F8R : accessed 12 Nov 2012), Sarah Ann Fick, 11 Jan 1846.

Go to the link, click on "search collection" and look for Vick with parents James & Margaret - nothing more.


Also I think this is Annie's grandad at http://cgi.csc.liv.ac.uk/~cprdb/
Field Name Field Value
KEYCODE BURTC01101013.10245
PADVER burtC1013.1
PARISH_CODE BURT
TAGGED 0
DATED 8370521
FORENAME GEORGE
SEX M
FATHER_FORENAME THOMAS
MOTHER_FORENAME MARY
SURNAME COATHUP
OCCUPATION LABOURER
RESIDENCE BURT

and this is his sis:

Field Name Field Value
KEYCODE BURTC01201015.10001
PADVER burtC1015.1
PARISH_CODE BURT
TAGGED 0
DATED 8410307
FORENAME ANN
SEX F
FATHER_FORENAME THOMAS
MOTHER_FORENAME MARY
SURNAME COATHUP
OCCUPATION LABOURER
RESIDENCE BURT

and his half sis:
Field Name Field Value
KEYCODE BURTC01201015.10021
PADVER burtC1015.1
PARISH_CODE BURT
TAGGED 0
DATED 8430910
FORENAME ELIZABETH
SEX F
FATHER_FORENAME THOMAS
MOTHER_FORENAME MARY
SURNAME COATHUP
OCCUPATION LABOURER
RESIDENCE BURT

and his step mum
Field Name Field Value
KEYCODE BURTM01100763.10004
PADVER burtM0763.1
PARISH_CODE BURT
TAGGED 0
DATED 8420523
GROOM_FNAME THOS
GROOM_SNAME COATHUP
GROOM_STATUS WR
GROOM_OCCUPATION LABOURER
GROOM_RESID BURTP
GROOM_AGE 2100
GROOM_SIGN S
BRIDE_FNAME MARY
BRIDE_SNAME BALL
BRIDE_STATUS SP
BRIDE_OCCUPATION LABOURER
BRIDE_RESID BURTP
BRIDE_AGE 2100
BRIDE_SIGN S
W_FNAME_1 GEORGE
W_SNAME_1 KENDRICK
W_FNAME_2 MARTHA
W_SNAME_2 KENDRICK
C_FNAME RALPH
C_SNAME CONGREV
G_F_FNAME CHARLES
G_F_OCCUPATION FARMER
B_F_FNAME THOMAS
B_F_OCCUPATION LABOURER

So Widower Thos wed another Mary (age is presumably given as "full")
Their records are heavily encoded, so check the site to decode.
To find George's mum's Maiden Surname, you can wait (prob years) until CheshireBMD retrofit the mum's MS that far back, or buy a fullsis's b.cert, e.g.:

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1837 to 1839
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
COATHUPE Sarah Neston Wirral NES/1/35

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1840 to 1845
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
COATHUP Elizabeth Neston Wirral NES/2/73 [not this half-sis]
COATHUPE Ann Neston Wirral NES/1/99

Births Dec 1838 (>99%)
COATHUPE Sarah Wirral 19 280

Births Mar 1841 (>99%)
Coathupe Ann Wirral 19 339

Births Sep 1843 (>99%)
COATHUP Elizabeth Wirral 19 309

NB for changes in subdistricts, check out Neston, Eastham and Bebington at:
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/subdists.php

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Nov 2012 02:46

Re Lynski's 1911:
COATHUP, Maursey Son M 2 1909 Bebington Cheshire VIEW
is really COATHUP, Ramsey Son M 2 1909 Bebington Cheshire VIEW
[Ramsey seems to be a family name]

SHELLY - do you have any subs that let you access records?

Even if not, right now GR has a free deal - see left margin:
"For a limited time only, view 1911 Census transcriptions for FREE. "

So you could check out 1911 for George Ramsey Coathup - Annie's cousin.

shelly

shelly Report 14 Nov 2012 19:32

Thank you mgnv, you have been really helpful. I could not get my head around the searching and kind of given up until i read your post and now understand a lot more x