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Finding relatives who were in service

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Daniel

Daniel Report 19 Jan 2013 00:54

My Great Grandfather was a Butler and therefore lived in "The big house" with his master, even when he was married and had a family. I've found his family (minus him) living on the estate in the 1911 census.

My search for him is being hampered by the fact that I don't know his first name.

The last person he worked for doesn't appear in the 1911 census. Does anyone have any advice as to how I can proceed from this point?

Lynski

Lynski Report 19 Jan 2013 00:59

What are the names of his family?

Perhaps you could find them in 1901 census and see if you can find his name that way?

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 01:02

Have you not worked backwards with the help of certs ?

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 19 Jan 2013 01:24

can you not find his marriage certificate??


have you tried looking on www.freebmd.org.uk ................... it's free

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 01:54

His surname is easy to trace back but no idea if the great grandfather is on paternal or maternal side

I think it is on maternal side as his fathers side of the family are shown on 1911 census and not a butler

Problem is with the occupation of butler he could be anywhere in this country or Scotland or abroad with his employers

Lynski

Lynski Report 19 Jan 2013 03:31

I have done the same as you GlitterBaby and I am wondering about this one???

1911 census –
TAYLOR, Ellen Mary Wife Married F 43 1868 Calstock
TAYLOR, Kathleen Maud Daughter F 11 1900 School Padstow
TAYLOR, Bernard William Son M 9 1902 School Starcross
TAYLOR, Arthur Claud Son M 2 1909 Exeter

RG number: RG14
Piece: 12688
Reference: RG14PN12688 RG78PN728 RD271 SD1 ED20 SN360
Registration District: Exeter
Sub District: Exeter
Enumeration District: 20
Parish: Exeter
Address: 45 Barnards Road Exeter
County: Devonshire

Married 13 years.
3 children born, all living

Just noticed that the original is signed by Arthur Taylor even though he wasn't there.


1911 census -

The Royal Devon And Exeter Hospital,
THE ROYAL DEVON & EXETER HOSPITAL

TAYLOR, Arthur Servant Married M 38 1873 Chef Domestic Cornwall Truro

RG number: RG14
Piece: 12690
Reference: RG14PN12690 RD271 SD1 ED25 SN9999
Registration District: Exeter
Sub District: Exeter
Enumeration District: 25
Parish: Exeter
Address: Southernhay East Exeter
County: Devonshire

Married 13 years.
3 children, all living

???????????
http://www.southernhayhouse.com/

??????
Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)
Stephens Ellen Mary Tavistock 5b 757
Taylor Arthur Tavistock 5b 757


Is Kathleen Maud the same one who married Stephen Noall in 1927, Dorset?

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
Taylor Kathleen Maud M St. Thomas 5b 46


Hopefully, Daniel will get back to us soon...........


If this is all wrong (!!!!) I will delete it.

patchem

patchem Report 19 Jan 2013 08:38

Welcome to the boards, Daniel.
The birth certificate or marriage certificate of any of his children will have his name on it.
Buy one of them for confirmation.

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jan 2013 10:41

I would imagine that is the correct family given Daniel's surname.

This looks like the marriage of Daniel's great grandparents:-

Name: TAYLOR, Arthur
Registration district: Tavistock
County: Devon
Year of registration: 1899
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 5B
Page no: 757

MarriageFinder: Arthur Taylor married one of the following people:

STEPHENS, Ellen Mary<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WILLIAMS, Sarah Ann
TOON, John Thomas

If the 1911 census for Arthur is correct (and it seems to be) then Arthur was a Chef in 1911 and not a butler "at the big house", unless as GlitterBaby says it's the other side of the family that Daniel is looking for.

Kath. x

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 11:55

Hi Kath

Yes came to the same conclusion as you.

So we need feedback on this one

Maureen

Daniel

Daniel Report 19 Jan 2013 14:52

Hi, Many thanks for your responses. As you might be able to tell I'm a bit of a novice! I haven't paid to look at any certs, which is why I didn't realise I might have found the info I was looking for there.

Also I realise I've caused confusion by referring to the person I'm seeking as my Great Grandfather because actually I'm not Daniel - he's my son, who's doing this with me and it's in his name our account is registered. Sorry about that!

The person I'm looking for is the father of the Kathleen Maud M, married to Stephen Noall, mentioned above by Lynski. Kathleen appears in a 1911 household record with the rest of the family - which I know to be correct (I knew two of them - my Nan and Great Aunt)). Her mother's occupation is listed as "wife of the butler at Rushmore", which I also know to be correct. But he himself isn't on it. So the suggestion that he was a chef in 1911 is wrong.

We're not being helped by the fact that our family seems to have had a liking for interchanging the names they were known by either with their middle names or nick names. Also I'm not convinced the records are always as accurate as I thought they would be. Kathleen was always known as Maud and the extra M on her marriage certificate is a mystery to me! I suppose this isn't uncommon and I guess I'm just exposing again the fact that I'm very inexperienced at tracing my/our family tree!

We really appreciate the trouble you've all taken to help us and we intend to follow up on your suggestions.

Tony

Eileen

Eileen Report 19 Jan 2013 15:48

Sometimes people in service were given a new name to avoid confusion if there was already a servant with the same name(or perhaps a member of the employers' family). Eileen

greyghost

greyghost Report 19 Jan 2013 16:15

Have we got the right KAthleen Maud?
The census posted above for 1911 goes with this one for 1901

Kathleen Maud appears on the 1901 census and so can't be the KAthleen Maud M born Dec Qtr 1901 St Thomas RD posted earlier (tho' thats the RD the census has them in in 1901)

1901 census transcription details for: Strand, Kenton, Starcross

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 2040
Folio: 87
Page: 9
Reg. District: St Thomas
Sub District: Kenton
Parish: Kenton
Enum. District: 8
Ecclesiastical District: Starcross
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Strand, Kenton, Starcross
County: Devonshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
TAYLOR, Ellen M Head Married F 35 1866 Devonport, Devonshire
TAYLOR, Kathleen M Daughter F 1 1900 Padstow, Cornwall

Given that she was born in Padstow then this is more likely (and no second initial M to confuse)
Births Jun 1900 (>99%)
TAYLOR Kathleen Maud St.Columb 5c 73

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jan 2013 16:15

Daniel/Tony

Where was the family living in the 1911 census where Kathleen Maud's mother was described as "wife of the butler at Rushmore"?

When was "your" Kathleen Maud born?

Kath. x

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 16:19

1911 ??

Name: Georgina Taylor
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Carrick-On-Shannon, Resident
Civil parish: Berwick St John
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address: 19 The Kennels, Rushmore, Salisbury, Wilts
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 15
Estimated Marriage Year: 1896
Occupation: Wife Of Butler At Rushmore, Wilts
Registration district: Tisbury
Registration District Number: 255
Sub-registration district: Donhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household schedule number: 14
Piece: 12138
Household Members: Name Age
Georgina Taylor 38
Henry Taylor 11 - born Cowley, Devon
Kathleen Taylor 9 - born Cowley, Devon
Hilda Taylor 3

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 16:25

1901 oh bother so he is not at home

Name: Georgina M Taylor
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Carrick on Thannon, Ireland

Civil parish: Upton Pyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Brampford Speke
Town: Upton Pyne
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Thomas
Sub-registration district: Heavitree
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 33
Piece: 2036
Folio: 43
Page Number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Ford 82
Emily Ford 40
Georgina M Taylor 29
Henry G J A Taylor 1

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 19 Jan 2013 16:29

No idea if right marriage ??

Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Biddlecombe William Henry E Tiverton 5b 764
Biddlecombe William Henry K Tiverton 5b 764
Ewens Eda Kate Tiverton 5b 764
Taylor William Henry G A Tiverton 5b 764
Walsh Georgina Maud Tiverton 5b 764

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jan 2013 16:30

This looks like Kathleen Maud's parents marriage - so we have her father's name:-


Name: WALSH, Georgina Maud
Registration district: Tiverton
County: Devon
Year of registration: 1895
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 5B
Page no: 764

MarriageFinder: Georgina Maud Walsh married one of the following people:

BIDDLECOMES, William Henry E
TAYLOR, William Henry G A<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
EWENS, Eda Kate

Kath. x


greyghost

greyghost Report 19 Jan 2013 16:30

A possibility given children's names

Civil Registration event: Marriage

Print Close
Name: TAYLOR, William Henry G A
Registration district: Tiverton
County: Devon
Year of registration: 1895
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 5B
Page no: 764
MarriageFinder: William Henry G A Taylor married one of the following people:

EWENS, Eda Kate
WALSH, Georgina Maud <<<<<<<<<<
BIDDLECOMES, William Henry E

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 19 Jan 2013 16:31

I think it is GlitterBaby!!

Kath. x

greyghost

greyghost Report 19 Jan 2013 16:37

?????????? A Long Shot - only one coming up with all the right names/initials albeit HArry not Henry

Civil Registration event: Birth

Name: TAYLOR, William Harry G A
Registration district: Wareham
County: Dorset
Year of registration: 1868
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no: 5A
Page no: 305