Genealogy Chat

Just seeking some opinions please.

I have this peripheral person connected to my ancestry (indirect ancestor). I have her - Fanny Carlen - aged 9 (b 1832) with her mother- Susan Carlen - (aged 40) in the 1841 Census at Greville Street, St Andrew Holborn, MIddlesex. I find her again in 1861 as Fanny F B Hill - Milliner. I think it should be Fanny S B according to the image and a marriage in 1859 as Fanny Susan Burton Carlen.

I'd be interested in opinions because of the the following 1843 marriage :


Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BURTON Susanna Lambeth 4 293
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>CARLEN John Lambeth 4 293
CHART Edward Lambeth 4 293
HOPKINS Hannah Lambeth 4 293
MADDOX Richard Lambeth 4 293
SPARKS Caroline Augusta Lambeth 4 293
THOMSON Robert Lambeth 4 293
WINSPER Mary Lambeth 4 293

It would make sense to me if on the 1841 (before Susanna Burton's marriage to John Carlen) they were down as 'Burton' - OR

were they all living there as Carlen (why is John missing) - OR

do I assume Fanny was born to Susan (Susanna) and she met John Carlen later but he already had an existing wife - but both Fanny and Susan took on his name and then a marriage followed in 1843?

If so why was Fanny ' Fanny Susan Burton Carlen' on marriage and not Fanny Susan Burton or Fanny Susan Carlen?

Just some questions in my head, and might not get the answer from the records, but wonder what others think on a Friday afternoon?

Thank you

I don't know if it helps but John Carlen, occupation accountant, was a widower on the marriage to Susanna Burton who was a spinster

on Fanny's marriage to James Hill her father is described as John Carlen a commercial traveller -m seems a bit of a drop from accountant whose father was a ship owner

Name: Fanny Susanna Carlen
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: 2 Nov 1839
Baptism Date: 8 May 1839
Father's Name: John Carlen - clerk
Mother's Name: Susanna Carlen
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Giles without Cripplegate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

Thanks LancashireAnn, so it looks like as if there was a bit of an arrangement between Susanna and John, and Fanny was the result, then he was able to marry Susanna later on.

I agree the occupation change from accountant to commercial traveller is a bit of a change - maybe after the death of his first wife the secret came out and he had to change employment.

there is a Fanny Carlen apprentice milliner in 1851

not sure if any of this is helpful

this is perhaps more useful

one of the witnesses to John & Susanna's marriage was Henrietta Silvester. There is someone of that name living in the same household as Susan & Fanny in 1841

people did exaggerate their occupation. I suppose if John's father was a ship owner he could have been working as an accountant for the firm and then become a traveller obtaining business etc

Thank you - that is most likely her - and milliner is the same as on the 1861, it is unusual to have the occupation as there are two small children too. Carlen seems to be a bit unusual and a milliner, so must be her.

Poor woman, she was dead before the next Census.

EDIT: Yes that is interesting about Henrietta Silvester - I can see her on the 1841, Susan looks like a Tobacconist, not sure about Henrietta's occupation

Janet

according to probate John died January 1864

Henrietta was a female servant (F S)

So that is what the F S means in the occupation column.

I've found the death entry for John (Islington March 1864), and Susannah (Islington March 1868) and then Fanny June 1869.

Just out of curiosity was he older (a lot older?) than Susanna?

on the 1861 he was 72 & Susanna 60

John was born in South Shields and in 1861 describes himself as 'town traveller'

Thank you - am getting a picture in my head now about these 3 people.

So Town Traveller, I think he had to multi-task - Clerk / Accountant / Commercial Traveller. I think your suggestion that he had to look for business for a family business makes sense.

I have just realised that the transcription of the baptism I posted has been miostranscribed

Fanny was baptised in 1939 but the register image says she was born 2nd November 1832

Thanks for point it out to me LancashireAnn, I didn't notice it, I saw the baptism date as 1839 but didn't notice the mistranscription on the birth date year - it shows 1832 on the Census which I had in my head, so realised she was about 7 at baptism - otherwise she managed to get baptised 6 months before she was born. Amazing!