Genealogy Chat

Thanks for that have been here for a whole :-)

Using:
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYMM-PM9
Name: Joan Murray
Gender: Female
Christening Date:
Christening Place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 04 May 1810
Birthplace: , Eskdalemuir, Dumfries, Scotland
Father's Name: John Murray
Mother's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11824-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067962
Reference ID: 2:161X4DK

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYMM-QX5
Name: William Murray
Gender: Male
Christening Date:
Christening Place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 28 Dec 1819
Birthplace: , Eskdalemuir, Dumfries, Scotland
Father's Name: John Murray
Mother's Name: Esther Cowan
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11824-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067962
Reference ID: 2:161X8BT


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQW-1J5
Name: Nancy Murray
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 25 Mar 1831
Christening Place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 07 Jan 1831
Father's Name: John Murray
Mother's Name: Esther Cowan
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11824-4
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067962
Reference ID: 2:161XFCW


NB There is another John around - or at least another wife:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYMM-GYM
Name: Ann Murrey
Gender: Female
Christening Date:
Christening Place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1819
Birthplace: , Eskdalemuir, Dumfries, Scotland
Father's Name: John Murrey
Mother's Name: Ann Scott
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11824-2
System Origin: Scotland-VR
GS Film number: 1067962
Reference ID: 2:161X89M


Some Eskdalemuir marr & death registers have been lost - what's covered pre-1855 is: marrs 1716-1777, deaths 1726-1801. See:
http://www.scotlandspeoplehub.gov.uk/pdf/list-of-oprs-812to854.pdf
On the FS site, you can limit yourself to Eskdalemuir by adding a batch #, specifically:
c11824x with x=2/4/1 for christenings, m11824x with x=2/1 for marrs
(c11pppx, m11pppx are the forms for batch #s for GROS index & C of S baptisms, marrs, except in big (or old) cities -
x=1/3 for 1855-1875ish GROS index extracts, and x= other #s, starting at 2, 4,... & going up by years as needed - big/old cities can run out of #s, needing "fake" parishes to accomodate their many rego's.
The ppp is the parish #, ppp=824 for Eskdalemuir)



The OPR(=Old Parish Register) entry can give more info than FS extracted - here you'll need to purchase the image from SP.
What extra info you might get varies by time and place

Here's a couple of examples:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBW6-GV4
The entry reads:
Lonmay OPR 1854
25th November 1854
Elizabeth Johnston, illegitimate daughter of James
Johnston Farm Servant Adie, Cruden & Elizabeth Anderson
Crisekelly, was born 25th November 1853, & baptized by Mr.
Gibbon 4th January 1854 before witnessess viz: William
Anderson & Elizabeth Scott, Crisekelly
[Adie is probably a misrecording of Adnie, and the witnesses were Eliz J's grandparents]
[Current spelling is Corsekelly]

That was an example where there was quite a lot of extra info - more typical is:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYF6-68M
The entry reads:
Rathen OPR 1801
July 13
William Scott & Elisabeth Rainie in Spillorsford had a son bap-
tized named William before Witnesses John May
and Alex'r Scott in Spillorsford
[Current spelling is Spillarsford]

Those baptized were my g gran & my ggg gran's brother.

Mgnv

Thanks for that I think that is part of the mob I am looking for. At some stage (between 1798 and 1811) an Ester Cowan married a John Murray. These were the parents of Pulteney Malcolm Murray who was my husband's 3x grandfather.

I prefer to use FreeCEN when I can, as I can click and see neighbouring h/h's (but there's only 1841 transcribed for Dumfries).
There's only 3 h/h's at Langshawburn, so clearly it's a farm addy. There's a family of Cowans and another mob of Murrays.
It's hard to think the 2 Murray mobs are not related.

http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
1841 Census
Piece: SCT1841/824 Place: Eskdalemuir -Dumfries-shire Enumeration District: 5
Civil Parish: Eskdalemuir Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 5 Page: 3
Address: Langshawburn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
MURRAY Adam M 25 Agricultural Labourer Dumfries-shire
MURRAY Jacky F 20 Outside Census County (1841)
MURRAY John M 3 Dumfries-shire
MURRAY Thomas M 2 Dumfries-shire
MURRAY James M 5m Dumfries-shire
COWAN Helen F 20 Female Servant Dumfries-shire

There's an 1890s map showing parishes for Dumfries (indeed for every Scottish county) at:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/

Eskdalemuir parish is in the NE of county. The village is at 325200,597900
Langshawburn is at 328500, 604600 (so abt 10 km NNE of the village).

You can enter these coordinates in a search at:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/ for a modern map,
or at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html for 19th cent maps.

If I know the magic letters (NY=3,5 and NT=3,6) I can convert these grid refs - 6 figures to nearest metre, to the landranger system, to the nearest km, then try:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT2804
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NY2597

Potty sorry for not replying before very remiss of me. Thanks for the information.

Susan, you won't find a birth registration for him - Civil Registration did not start until 1855 in Scotland. You will need to search for a baptism which may have his birth date. Nothing is coming up on scotlandspeople - there are some Murray baptism in Eskdalemuire but none for Pulteney.

By the way, the Rutteny in the 1861 census I posted, is actually Pulteney, so this family is probably related.

I found the headstone for Elizabeth Beattie who was Pulteney Malcolm Murray's Grandmother. The husband was buried separately in another place for some reason. There was also another PMM who was the son of my PMM's oldest brother and I did find his birth and death records and I know it was his from the dates. I can find my PMM arriving in Australia on the SS Lady Lilford - sailed from Liverpool 18/6/1839 - at Port Adelaide, South Australia on 27/9/1839 with his brother Alexander Borthwick Murray. So PMM did exist but I cannot find any trace of a birth certificate for him, do you think that means he simply wasn't registered?

Thanks guys - if you need anything Australian I will try and help

This is the address for the familysearch site:

https://familysearch.org/

This site has Scottish BMD and baptisms:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

but nothing coming up for Pulteney

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

I'm pretty sure the link has been posted for you on one of your other threads................

The International Genealogical Index (IGI) is a database of genealogical records, compiled from several sources, and maintained by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Just google IGI

Reggie

Thanks but what does IGI stand for?

Susan

To Potty

Many thanks for that, I am very new to this and so don't always know where to look.

Susan

In 1861, a Murray and a Cowan family are still living at Lan(g)shawburn:

1861 Scotland Census
about James Cawon
Name: James Cawon
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Grieve
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration number: 824
Registration district: Eskdalemuir
Civil parish: Eskdalemuir
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Neither Lanshawburn
Occupation: Ag Labourer
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 8
Line: 19
Roll: CSSCT1861_143
Household Members: Name Age
James Cawon 60
Mary Grieve 45
Hellen Cawon 17
William Cawon 13
Margret Magdaline Cawon 4

1861 Scotland Census
about Adam Murray
Name: Adam Murray
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1813
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Jackie Hope
Gender: Male
Where born: Eskdalemuir, Dumfriesshire
Registration number: 824
Registration district: Eskdalemuir
Civil parish: Eskdalemuir
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Lanshawburn
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 7
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1861_143
Household Members: Name Age
Adam Murray 48
Jackie Hope 45
George Murray 18
Hellen Murray 15
William Murray 14
Andrew Murray 11
Adam Murray 7
Alexander Murray 4
Rutteny Murray 1
Janet Harkness 12
Thomas Dalgleish 26

This site is very good for info and history on all areas of Scotland, although it doesn't have any genealogical data:

http://www.scottish-places.info/

Nancy in 1851 - I would think Prather is Ester - woman in Scotland quite often used their maiden names- she is shown as an Annuitant:

1851 Scotland Census
about Nancy Murray
Name: Nancy Murray
[Nancy Cowan]
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relationship: Daughter
Mother's Name: Prather Cowan
Gender: Female
Where born: Eskdale??, Dumfriesshire
Parish Number: 824
Civil parish: Eskdalemuir
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Lanossawburn
Occupation: Shepherd
ED: 5
Page: 2 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 5
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1851_207
Household Members: Name Age
Prather Cowan 67
Nancy Murray 20

The family in 1841 - Pulteney not with them:

1841 Scotland Census
about Nancy Murray
Name: Nancy Murray
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Dumfriesshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Eskdalemuir
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Langshawburn
Parish Number: 824
Household Members: Name Age
John Murray 61 - not born Dumfries-shire
Esther Murray 58
Elisabeth Murray 15
Nancy Murray 10
Thomas Armstrong 15

Baptisms of some siblings:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYMM-QXR
name: William Murray
gender: Male
baptism/christening date:
baptism/christening place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
birth date: 28 Dec 1819
birthplace: , Eskdalemuir, Dumfries, Scotland
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: John Murray
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Esther Cowan
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C11824-2
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067962
reference number: 2:161X8BT
Collection: John Murray in entry for William Murray, "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYQW-1JR
name: Nancy Murray
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 25 Mar 1831
baptism/christening place: , ESKDALEMUIR, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
birth date: 07 Jan 1831
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: John Murray
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Esther Cowan
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C11824-4
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067962
reference number: 2:161XFCW
Collection: John Murray in entry for Nancy Murray, "Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950"

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1319735

Check the IGI - free

Or Scotlands People - pay-to-view

Presumably you are asking for info about him prior to his arrival in Australia?

PMM b 1819 in Langshawburn, Dumfries, Scotland. I believe his parents are John Murray b 1779 and Ester Cowan b 1781. His Gparents Adam Murray and Elizabeth Beatty or Beattie. He came to Australia about 1840 or thereabouts. Any information on him would be appreciated.

Susan