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Brick wall - my grandfather's birth details

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 4 Mar 2013 00:00

just a (probably daft) thought - I know King Edward 7th name was actually Albert Edward but he was known as 'Bertie'. Copying royalty?

patchem

patchem Report 4 Mar 2013 06:58

John Mealy
[John Mealey]
Age: 60 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil parish: Everton County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Street Address: 31 Mark St Condition as to marriage: Widow
Occupation: Car Driver Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton ED, institution, or vessel: 74
Piece: 3668 Folio: 110 Page Number: 19
John Mealy 60 widower
Margaret Bullen 39 dau widow
Alice Walthew 27 dau married bus driver's wife
Marcella Walthew 1
Henry Walthew

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 4 Mar 2013 08:04

Ann, I don't think that's a daft idea at all.

Found this death:

Liverpool, England, Burials, 1813-1974

Name: Alice Walthew
Birth Year: abt 1864
Age: 62
Burial Date: 10 May 1926
Parish: Walton Park

Address is 22 Sheridan Street, which is the same as the 1911 I posted on page 3 where she was called Hornby.

Buried at Rice Lane parochial cemetery, the reference is 1644 6L. Cost was 18/-

(Will update Henry Hornby Walthew's record on page 3 with similar info)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 4 Mar 2013 09:08

This is the one born 1853, whose birth MC posted on page 3.
Haven't yet found the death of the one born 1880, posted at bottom of page 3.

Deaths Jun 1918
Walthew Henry H 65 W.Derby 8b 421

Jay

Jay Report 6 Mar 2013 12:29

Sorry to appear a bit dim but is the suggestion that Alice Hornby (on 1911) later married a Walthew - so was probably widowed after 1913. If so Margaret, Albert William, Bertie Alexander and Henry were my Edward's siblings. It is a fact that Edwards 13 children included the use of ALL of those names. I'm not sure where to go next though.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 6 Mar 2013 13:30

Hi Jay, there is quite a lot to take in!

Alice Mealey married Henry Walthew in 1879 (I posted the marriage on page 3). Henry's father is named as Henry Hornby on marriage. This implies that Henry Walthew was the illegitimate son of a Hornby.

Officially, the Henry and Alice that married in 1879 should have the surname Walthew but it appears that Henry also chose to be known by his father's name of Hornby (and basically you can call yourself anything you want as long as it's not done for illegal purposes), hence the variation in surnames on census and the birth records of children. This is a scenario that we often come across.

When Alice died in 1926 her death was registered in her "official" married name. You'll notice that I posted her husband's burial and he's listed as Henry Hornby Walthew.

The important thing though is that we don't have any concrete proof yet that the Bertie Alexander on the 1911 is actually your grandfather Edward (although there are pointers such as the father's name, his children's names, etc).

I'm wondering if electoral rolls might have some clues (but if Edward was away at sea then might be difficult).

Perhaps someone with local knowledge of Liverpool might have some ideas?

Jay

Jay Report 6 Mar 2013 15:55

I'm wondering if Edward was born between Albert William and Bertie Alexander or, more probably, after Bertie Alexander. As you say, he may have been away (at sea) at census time.

By the way, I typed Bertie Alexander into an Ancestry search and there were a lot of them which surprised me. They can't have been named after Victoria's son Bertie who was actually Albert Edward I think.